P38 and the night of DOOM

[GRUNHERZ]

Fight Fester.

[pugg666]

any of you guys remember the L model in WB way back when   (and i'm talking pre 2.00, more like 1.07-1.11 or so, it's been a while)

it was tough, had incredible roll at all speeds, good fire power, average visibility, and it did not compress like it does here

[edit]
i remember one fight i had against eman and worr...eman in his 51( go figure   ), and worr in his 38. at about 20k or so

eman wasn't a problem, but no matter what i did worr was always on my six. it was a fun fight that lasted about 15 minutes or so...of course i died in the end, but it was worth it  

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: pugg666 ]

[Zippatuh]

Flying it like the P47 will be a little hard since I’m also not experienced with them either.  I’m an F4U guy, and that was listed as one of the aircraft NOT to fly like.

With the F4U I need to know two things: Zoom, which the AH model has been shown by F4UDOA to be lacking, and roll baby roll baby roll, which is not.

With the P38 I have the compression gauged, that needle hits 450, well the elevator trim had better be accessible somewhere close.  I’ve been able to pull out of all the compressions with trimming the elevator up.  Turning, the damn stall buzzer was going crazy and I didn’t think my turns were very tight.  I also do a lot of yo-yo’s instead of flat turns.  It didn’t roll as well as my Corsair but I found using the elevator trim made for some nice scissors.  A few people have said that there isn’t any one thing that it performs well at executing.  Does this mean have the E and alt advantage or don’t take the fight?

Fester has posted to fly the P38 like the P38.  Can you elaborate a little on this please?  Flying against them I’ve seen some pretty fantastic aileron rolls that spoiled my shots as well as a few well-executed scissors.  I’ve even been taken by a double Immelman that wow’d the hell out of me.

Does it all boil down to have the altitude advantage, keep your nose up, and don’t press the attack?

Thanks for the responses so far.  Thanks to batdog for giving some of my pride back  .

Zippatuh

[Fatty]

People keep saying the dive flaps don't work, but I find them to be excellent for riding a dive just inside the compression edge (where there is some compression but you can still pullout stick only not hitting elev key as fast as you can).

[Ripsnort]

Zip you see my note about P38L, G10, and P47D tests I did yesterday?

Going by memory here, notes are at home:

All tests were done at 25K. and fuel burned to 75% in tanks.

Level flight, wep on until exhausted, right after wep exhausted, top speed was noted (except G10 which can keep going, and going..)

P38L- 410 TAS
109G10-420 TAS
P47D-400 TAS

Dove each from 25k thru to sea level, trying to maintain control via elevator/aileron trim controls:

P38L: loss of control appeared to be about 510 MPH.

G10: Loss of control appeared to be about 575 MPH.

P47D: Loss of control appeared to be about 585 MPH.

Last test was maximum zoom from sea level (pulling out of borderline loss of control diver scenario above) vertically straight up, slow transition as to not lose energy in the turn:

P38L: Stalled at 8,000 feet.
G10: Stalled at 8700 feet.
P47D: Stalled at 10,000 feet.

None of these tests were closed or base line, just a 'what can this do' type tests.

[Westy MOL]

"Eh? you confusing the tail booms with the elevator AGAIN westy?"

 EEk!! Guilty. What I meant was I tend to lose that long thin buffet table located inbetween the two rudders on the first shot against me.

  Westy

[popeye]

I've read that the P-38 had "excellent low speed handling", which ours seems to not have.  Is it me, my info, the Fowler flaps model, or what?

[minus]

actualy tested the P 38 on dual trotle , sory but crap it not turn beter at all

ju 88 handle nicely on dual trotle managment

[pdog_109]

DOH! Its not dual throttle control. For what i said you need single throttle control. Like 2 throttles for 2 seperate engines.
Hard to do in a sim. Nearly impossible.

[Tac]

"Does it all boil down to have the altitude advantage, keep your nose up, and don’t press the attack"

Thats about it. If you follow a con into a dive (unless its a 1-1 OR if the con is a yak/n1k/la7/high E p51) you basically serve yourself as bait for others. For some reason, people see a cloud of 190's, 109's, 205's, n1ks and la7s...and 1 P38... and guess who gets bounced by 2+ cons?  

"P38L: loss of control appeared to be about 510 MPH"

Gee wizz.. I WISH. The plane will actually break apart at that speed. Fastest ive been is about 490 nearing 500..compressed the whole way and staying in a 20 degree dive (or it will be impossible to pull out of b4 the plane sheds the wings). Compression usually hits around 410-460 depending on alt.

"P38L: Stalled at 8,000 feet" sounds about right.. if you pulled up and trimmed the thing with WEP on till it stalled.

Popeye: slow 38 without using flaps..well, lets say it wont be in 1 piece for very long.

Minus: You were turning on the side of the dead engine right? it does give you about 20% better turn (i'd say). Specially if you have flaps deployed.

Pdog: play with your keymap, it can be done. Or better yet, get the suncom dual throttle for only $60      

[Jimdandy]

I've found that you need to stand on the dive brakes as you start your dive. This seems to increase the speed at which it starts to compress. It may just be my imagination but give it a try and see.

[eddiek]

I like the P38, was 11-1 in it after 2 sorties, until last night that is.
The one death I had before last night occured when I dove in during a field capture, strafed (vulched..hehehe) a YAK, and when he blew up, there went both engines.........no smoke trail, no vapor trail like fuel hit.......just engines dead.  Glided out to sea, ditched next to a DE.
Last night, got into it with 2 Ponies, tried to bleed one of them out of E when his buddy ran off.......he opened up at 790 on my FE, there went both booms, left engine, and my patience.....
P38 zoom climb doesn't seem all that impressive either.  And like I told HiTech in his office, the darn thing STILL torques to the left on takeoff...................... .

[Fatty]

I'll mess with it Tac.  Dug it out and put it on my spare machine today, I'll see if I can get it working solid.  Even in its crummy condition there was a very noticable turning ability increase.

I'd still love to see a USB digital version though.

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: Fatty ]

[Tac]

"I'd still love to see a USB digital version though"

amen to that. Also, a stand-alone version.. having to have another stick plugged into it to work is quite annoying.

But I dont see much future for suncom. Heck, they cant even keep their website up 3 days out of the week  

[tshred]

I've got dual throttles, and the only time I cut one is when doing a hammerhead, but you got to do it right or you will lose control.

Any of you ever cut throttle and dump flaps? Or do you just fly full bore all the time. Hell, sometimes I have 4 notches of flaps in. If you play your cards right, you can still extend away from most planes, but you have to maintain speed and alt over your opponent or they'll run you down and kill ya. It takes a lot of patience to fly it in the MA these days, and a wing man helps big time. You just can't jump into a furball with it. Pick your fights carefully.

ts