Compassion for people who break the law?

[capt. apathy]

Those immigrants perform work which no US citizen, yes, even the poor unemployed folks, want to perform.

An example is any Large lanscaping company in any US city employs as much as 80% of their workforce from this immigration pool.

It would also allow a cleaner and meaner view of illegals incoming and currently in the US by removing those who simply wanna work.
 

pure crap,  if they can't do bussiness without breaking the law they shouldn't be in bussiness.

if you can't find anyone legal to do the work, raise your pay scale to make the job more atractive.  my job is much worse than landscaping (physical intensity, danger, exposure to elements and chemicals), but they pay enough to make it worth it.

you pay me $30 an hour and a $20 benifit package to mow lawns and I'd be the first to apply.

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Ossie
I'll touch it. Don't pretend for a second that this proposal is anything other than greed motivated. The advantages for businesses = immense. The actual advantage for laborers, both legal and illegal mind you, are far from practical, and in some cases non-existant.

greed motivated?  Ya.  That's it, AND it will bost votes with the hispanic community to boot.  Stop applying typical anti-republican euphimism to everything... it get's old very quickly.

How can hatred be such an underlying motive if the very people that are supposed to benefit are themselves at risk of being screwed? It's a bad situation for everybody except those who are already employing illegal immigrants...illegally I might add.

How are they at risk of being screwed?  Oh.. wait... if they sign of up for the program they can work, but they might be deported after 3 years.  If they don't... they can continue to work and live here indefinately, but not really be a part of the country.  Yeppers... that's great.  The "let's just pretend they're not here" solution.  It's great to condone a tier system in the U.S.

This is the first attempt at anything I've seen in regards to dealing with illegal immigrants that's actually made sense.  Not a round them up and ship them out solution... not a "let's just give them everything" solution either.  If they work here, they can stay and actually be a part of it.  That would be the ideal... that would be exactly how this country was built.

MiniD

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Sweet Jebus DJ, stop using intelligence against these obvious scholars!
-SW

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Nakhui
Landscaping is a damn good job. I've done it.

However, I'm not willing to work for $3.95 an hour with no medical or vacation benefits.

It's not be because I don't want to do the work...

It's because that wage is below the standard of living I deem acceptable in the US OF A!

Companies want cheap labor - I'm a business man... I understand why... it's business. But in this case - it's greed, it's illegal, and it's imorral.

This is one job that can't be exported over seas in order to exploit people's labor.

so... they hire illegal immigrants... they don't give them health benifits and they don't pay them a living wage!

You can't spin this into something good.

It's bad for everyone... Americans and Immigrants... it keeps immigrant as poor working slaves. and it allows people who are breaking the law to profit.

Mr Family Values Bush... what's he thinking?

What about this, right now illegal immigrants are working for less than minimum  wages in most situations, and if they are working for more than minimum wage, that is a job an american could take but they didn't.  By making it legal to work in the U.S. even if your illegal, they make it so they have to follow labor laws when employing these workers.  That means its just as attractive to hire regular citizens in place of the illegals, or they can hire illegals who don't report to the government.  

As it stands, the jobs illegals are being paid more than minimum wage for, earn that money.  Legal American's could have or did compete for that position at the same pay, and either did not work hard enough, or felt it was beneath them to hold the position.  Nothing will change in this situation, except now taxes will be expected from the now legal workers, which increases government cash flow.

If illegal workers are making more than minimum wage, if they wish to work for the employer, they cannot do so in a legal situation, or else the employer must pay them minimum wage.  The employer can either raise their pay, thus opening jobs up for American's to compete for, or they can hire illegals that do not try and become legal workers.  Thus its a circle, and in reality this bill accomplishes nothing but getting more of the money that should be paid in taxes back in government hands, and increase GWB's popularity with the Hispanic voters.

[mrblack]

Hello my name geez  whaanita can i take jur order pleaze.
I have always thought the mexican border should have been filled with landminds a long time ago.
With Snipers in towers to get the ones that make it through the mine field.

But thats just me.
I never have liked open boarders and I think The INS will be our downfall.

Don't believe me ?
Most if not all of the 9-11 hi-jackers where in this country legally.

I say come for a visit then get the butter out have a nice day:D

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

5|\|1p3r5! Animal, you are on call.
-SW

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by mrblack
Hello my name geez  whaanita can i take jur order pleaze.
I have always thought the mexican border should have been filled with landminds a long time ago.
With Snipers in towers to get the ones that make it through the mine field.

But thats just me.
 

Didn't you not so long ago claim that REAL snipers don't shoot at civillians?
So any man, woman, and child is open game if they happen to pass through your imaginary minefield?
Most illegal immigrants don't come to the US to settle for substandard wages because it's easy.
Maybe they come here because there is just so much more economic hardship where they come from.
They don't come here because they think it a hobby. They come out of necessity.

[capt. apathy]

Maybe they come here because there is just so much more economic hardship where they come from.
They don't come here because they think it a hobby. They come out of necessity.

and things are better here because wrokers can generally get a decent wage.  this provides customers and drives our economy.  when people come here illegally, and take jobs that pay illegal wages, it undermines our whole system, lowering wages and giving us the wonderfull economy of their homeland.  companies who hire illegals have an unfair advantage over those who hire americans (including imigrants, and foriegners who are here legally).  basicly we reward bad companies for bringing this security threat into our borders.

it may not be an armed invasion but it is an invassion none the less and a real threat to our country.  

if they want to work apply for a work visa and get a real job for legal wages and pay taxes just like everyone else here.  having a whole sub-culture of people who are undocumented foriegners running around in our country isn't exactly good security either.

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Mini D
America was built on legal migration?  Wow.  I believe U.S. migration laws were quite a bit down the line.  What this ammounts to is "we're here... and we need to keep it for ourselves".

Yes even from the very beginning immigration to America was based upon some aspect of legality...

The English colonies existed by charter from their respective Kings and Queens.

History lesson aside...

There are two violators of the law in this case, the illegal immigrant... and the employer who gives him work.

Personally, I think the immigrant should be deported and the employer thrown in jail.

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Munkii
Thus its a circle, and in reality this bill accomplishes nothing but getting more of the money that should be paid in taxes back in government hands, and increase GWB's popularity with the Hispanic voters.

Bush is pandering to the hispanics.. agreed.

However changing the laws because people break the law is not the way to go..

That's like... saying well everyone is driving 80 mph past the school zone... so we might as well raise the speed limit so they can do it legally.

No... the speed limit saves lives.

There are reasons for immigration laws, labor laws, and why it's illegal to hire illegal immigrants.

If illegal immigrants couldn't get jobs in the USA - they wouldn't come here.

The real criminals are the employers who take advantage of them and violate the law.

[Mini D]

Yeah... I know what you think personally.

Really... you should take a peak at the statue of liberty some day.  Read what it says.  Then reconsider the totallitarian society you are suggesting.

MiniD

[Rude]

This is reality boys.....

I've been an employer for 25 years....I can barely find people to hire that will show up on time much less do the work once on the job.

This story about cheap labor is a lie....the fact is, the mexicans are paid the same rate of pay that Americans are....we're not talking about highly skilled positions here....average pay for landscapers nationally....10.00/hr.

These immigrants show up on time and work hard for 8-10 hours a day...every day. The American worker has become lazy and is all about what will you do for me today....that's reality....you guys want to kid yourselves and think it's some super duper right wing political ploy, go ahead.

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Rude
This story about cheap labor is a lie....the fact is, the mexicans are paid the same rate of pay that Americans are....we're not talking about highly skilled positions here....average pay for landscapers nationally....10.00/hr.
 

I agree wholeheartedly Rude, I ran a painting contracting business with my father.  We had 3 white guys, the three owners.  We had 7 when we started, but the 4 that weren't bosses, just wouldn't show up.  Two guys from Honduras asked us for work, we tried them out for one day, they blew everyone away.  We got more work out of them for longer, than 4 other guys.  They instantly got a pay raise from 10.00 to 12.00 an hour and the other 4 just stopped showing up.

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Munkii
I agree wholeheartedly Rude, I ran a painting contracting business with my father.  We had 3 white guys, the three owners.  We had 7 when we started, but the 4 that weren't bosses, just wouldn't show up.  Two guys from Honduras asked us for work, we tried them out for one day, they blew everyone away.  We got more work out of them for longer, than 4 other guys.  They instantly got a pay raise from 10.00 to 12.00 an hour and the other 4 just stopped showing up.

Then let's just not have any green cards... open the bordres and let them run in and paint our houses, clean our toilets, and mow our lawns.

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Nakhui
Then let's just not have any green cards... open the bordres and let them run in and paint our houses, clean our toilets, and mow our lawns.

Which is what we have now anyways.  Thinking about it, the other reason for this bill is to protect businesses that have illegal workers.  If they become legal all of a sudden, bam, no more illegal employee's.  Therefore, Wal-Mart wouldn't have gotten in a big stink over illegal's.  Uh oh, tin foil hat time.  Big Business Bush signed into an act making it legal to work illegals in a round about way after a huge Wal-Mart raid, the biggest of the big businesses.