Author Topic: WMD's found in Iraq (Read 17395 times)

Godzilla · « **Reply #135 on:** January 11, 2004, 08:36:10 PM »

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Originally posted by yowser
Hard work defending Bush these days eh Kieren?

Can somebody else not take over for a little while and give the poor guy a break?

yowser

I'll step up.

These people that are arguing over 45 minuts or imminant threat are just really deflecting the real issue. The REAL issue is that the UN was a COMPLETE failure at getting Iraq to comply with it's resolutions. Nothing but force or at least the credible threat of force was going to work on Saddam....and the UN offfered NIETHER, thus ENSURING a war would eventually happen.

The UN resolutions and Iraqs FAILURE to comply with them are the issue and the ONLY issue. The UN agreed that Iraq probably had WMD as well as banned weapons. The UN screwed around for 12 years trying to get Iraq to be nice and comply. Iraq was NEVER going to comply.

You guys can't even see the forest for the trees. The issue was that Iraq was identified as a threat BY THE UN and the UN did nothing to ensure that Iraq would comply.

Maybe you guys don't like the way it was resolved, but the fact is that the issue was resolved. The UN's goal of Iraqi compliance has come to fruition.

Why even bother arguing about what Bush said or didnt say? The issue is over and for the better of all involved. Can't anyone see that?

Kieran · « **Reply #136 on:** January 11, 2004, 08:37:38 PM »

Gscholz-

Yes, you are.

It would have been easier for you to admit you'd made a mistake a little higher up. You've been calling many here neo-cons, then got all huffy when I mentioned your "agenda". You don't even know me, how would you know if I am a neo-con?

Hypocrisy noted.

I can more easily make the case your country collaborated with the nazis than you can Bush only stated "imminent threat" as a reason to go to war. There is at least some truth to the argument I could make.

strk · « **Reply #137 on:** January 11, 2004, 08:42:51 PM »

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get our troops back home

Amen to that

strk

Godzilla · « **Reply #138 on:** January 11, 2004, 08:55:01 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
Godzilla, you may like international vigilantism and US world police. I don't.

But I don't consider it to be a case of vigilantism. I consider the action justified in order to ensure Iraq would not post a threat to the US in ANY way.

The UN identified Iraq as a threat, and the US also did. Nobody knew at the time what Saddam had for sure. The only thing EVERYONE knew at the time was that Iraq was not complying with the resolutions.

Now, after what happened to us on 911, I prefer we take NO chances on a known liar and a known threat such as Iraq. I prefer my country stop people like Saddam before they get a chance to do anything to us. Saddam already tried to kill a former President and who knows what else. You dont think we are justified going in after all that was known of Saddam at the time?

It's not like the US was picking on Iraq.....Iraq had ALL the options to prevent this, but chose NONE of them. Iraq decided Iraq'a fate.

Can you not see any merit in these views? It's not like we didn't give Iraq a chance to simply comply

Kieran · « **Reply #139 on:** January 11, 2004, 08:57:55 PM »

I said the chemical rounds were reason for concern, and indicitive of lying on the Iraqis' part. You stated the "neo-cons" are taking a few rounds and calling them an "imminent threat", something no one at all has said. Since my posts are as close to a defense of Bush as you might find in the thread (Hortlund's efforts notwithstanding) I can presume you were referring to me in both cases, if not personally, then by association.

Heck, even the Americans in the field and the Whitehouse aren't calling it proof of an imminent threat.

As for your "agenda", I won't pretend to know it. In the context I used it I am referring to your "purpose" for saying such a thing. You must have one, though I can only guess what it is.

Kieran · « **Reply #140 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:01:47 PM »

No.

If you can't accept the simple fact you are putting words into the mouths of people with whom you disagree, why should I post anything of the sort for you? You are clearly either incapable of understanding the words or you are intentionally twisting them, and little purpose would be served honoring your request for "threats to the US".

Kieran · « **Reply #141 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:03:02 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
To whom it may consern Kieran. So I MUST have an agenda huh? Well if you say so.

You don't? I do. It ain't necessarily a bad thing, you know.

Godzilla · « **Reply #142 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:06:58 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
What threat did Iraq pose to the USA? Be spesific.

To begin with, it was ANY potential threat and that is enough for me. For instance, that Saddam had tried to KIll Bush Sr, that Saddam could pass WMD to a terrorist, that he could harbor or train them. The threat that Iraq could lauch a scud with WDM into Israel just to destabilize the regeon......and any number of other "unknowns"

The threats may or may not have been imminent, but just the fact that they were there and the fact that Saddam was not complying made that enough of a reason. We were dealing with a known lair who was deceiving he world till the end......what more reasons could we possibly need?

I would be very happy if you and others would just acknowledge that we had every right to make sure Saddam was put out of action, even if we needed to go alone.

Fishu · « **Reply #143 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:08:20 PM »

Kieran keeps talking and talking, not noticing how hes talking about things which are true against him as well..

Hypocrisy comes to mind, eh?

"you are putting words into the mouths of people with whom you disagree"

AKIron · « **Reply #144 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:10:03 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
What threat did Iraq pose to the USA? Be spesific.

Do you mean besides an attempted assasination of a US president? Or besides 12 years of taking pot shots at US aircraft?

I won't even go into all the other reasons 'cause I know you'll deny them.

Godzilla · « **Reply #145 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:24:31 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
Then you'd better be prepared to wait untill hell freezes over because you have no such right and you have signed the UN Charter which strictly forbids this use of military force unless used in self defence. The US broke its word. The US cannot be trusted. It's that simple. I would never do bussiness with a US company if substancial money was involved, the US does not recognize international trade courts. I would never turn a POW over to any US unit, the US does not recognize international war-crimes tribunals. The US sets itself above established international laws and treaties.

So, after Iraq tries to kill a US President, we should just not do anything? After Iraq fires at our aircraft, we should stand down?

The US is bad and Iraq was a victem I suppose.

strk · « **Reply #146 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:29:56 PM »

There is only one reason we are in Iraq - the Big-O

OIL

If we went after every dictator terrorizing his people, ever human rights violater, every country with WMDs, we would be at war for the next 50 years. We should be invading China first, then North Korea, Iran, Syria, maybe Saudi Arabia, some of the former Soviet countries.

Now it is great that we dethroned an awful brutal dictator and we may find some WMD's yet (it sure would help our reputation in the world) the only reason we are really in Iraq is so that US companies can get their hands on Iraqi oil.

That is the reason we rushed to help Kuwait in the first place.

Big Oil owns everything. Industry needs Energy. US politicians on both sides of the aisle are so bought and paid for it isnt funny.

strk

Godzilla · « **Reply #147 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:30:03 PM »

I rest ASSURED that Iraq will not be a threat to the US now, thanks to the US and not the UN.

I rest ASSURED that the UN is worthless.

I rest ASSURED that the only country looking out for the US is the US.

Godzilla · « **Reply #148 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:39:18 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
While you're at it rest assured you have gained more enemies than friends over this. Rest assured that the terrorist recruiters are having a field day. Rest assured you're not safer, quite the opposite.

Sure. It's funny how fast LIbya and Iran have suddenly seen the light. It's funny what a little POWER will do to put fear in these idiots. Even NK seems to be towing the line.

Power and the use of force has been the law of man since anyone can remember. Power talks, the UN walks basically.

You are just lucky that a country like the US has the power.

I guess what you are saying is that it's better not to piss off terrorists. LOL!

I say if they declare war on us, lets have a war. Don't be shy terrorists......lets have a war......isn't that what the terrorists have said anyway? "Death to America" and such? Well countries like Iran, whos prayers of Death to America, should be careful whaqt they wish for.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #149 on:** January 11, 2004, 09:44:30 PM »

He's not a fascist, and don't call him Jesus.