Was this God's plan for Carlie?

[Wanker]

Ok, straight up. I'm an agnostic. My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God. But every time I read about another little girl who is kidnapped and killed like Carlie, I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?

I'm listening, Christians. Was this God's plan for Carlie?

[Holden McGroin]

As an agnostic I am no expert on religous dogma, but I think that George Burn's character in the original 'Oh God' said it best when he replied to the question of why He would let starvation and poverty run rampant in the world.

He replied to John Denver's character, "How can you let it happen?"

If this is the guy who kidnapped and killed her, he could have been stopped at any one of his numerous previous arrests.

[Capt. Pork]

Trying to find goodness in this is like trying to find goodness in genocide.

Believers will tell you that evil deeds are the product of god's willingness to allow us to practice free will, but where is the free will of those onto which the evil deeds are done? I don't see any godliness in child abuse, in the murder of millions of helpless citizens by heavily armed dictators and in ravenous plague.

Yes, I too am an agnostic. I believe in a higher power. I just don't think it cares about our well-being as much as some would like to believe. The Earth-centered (read: human centered)Universe theory should have died out after Galileo but apparently we're still, in some way, blessed beyond our understanding that Carlie is dead and that more will follow.

God's messege to me has always been: Live a good life and try to help those close to you do the same with what you have. No gaurantees that it won't all turn to cow dung in the blink of an eye.

[Mini D]

Do you give God credit when good things happen too, or just point out His responsibility for bad things too?

It's not really a question "Christians" need to answer for you.  It's one you have to figure out for yourself.  It's the classic "how can there be good without evil" philisophical question.

MiniD

[Eagler]

Originally posted by banana
Ok, straight up. I'm an agnostic. My whole life, I've been trying to find some way to believe in God. But every time I read about another little girl who is kidnapped and killed like Carlie, I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?

I'm listening, Christians. Was this God's plan for Carlie?

You are trying to reason this out with the baseline that this life is the only life ... there is the flaw

this life is hell, as good as it gets it is still hell as suffering is a NY minute away on any given day

those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.

[Wanker]

Mini-D, since you're dancing around my original question, I'll try again.

Do you believe that it was God's plan to have Carlie die at age eleven at the hands of a brutal killer?

If not, then how can God be credited for someone who has lived to a ripe old age and did something wonderful, like discover the cure for Polio?

I smell double standard.

Yes, you are correct, I don't understand. And since I've already asked God this question this morning, and since I'm still awaiting an answer, I thought I'd ask the faithful to help me out in this.

[Wanker]

Originally posted by Eagler
You are trying to reason this out with the baseline that this life is the only life ... there is the flaw

this life is hell, as good as it gets it is still hell as suffering is a NY minute away on any given day

those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.

Eagler, I admire you. I wish I had the blind faith to believe that rosy picture of the hereafter, but isn't it just a tad suspicious that the rosy picture of the heareafter is an easy thing to believe in, because it can't be "proved" with what we consider today to be scientific methods?

This is the whole crux of the issue for me. We are supposed to take on blind faith that there is an all-powerful God, who loves every one of us, who died for our sins, and has a plan for each of us.

Yet, God's plan for Carlie was to be brutally murdered, and who knows, maybe even raped before that happened.

What on earth could she ever have done to deserve that?

What kind of merciful God would allow that to happen?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by banana
.. I become even more convinced that God is a figment of our imagination. What kind of merciful God would have this as his plan for a little girl?
 

[Toad]

More importantly, what is Florida's plan for the murderer if/when he is eventually caught and convicted?

[Wanker]

If you think my outrage over the brutal death of a little girl is a troll, I pity you.

[Nod]

banana, I will just be honest with you. You have to find God yourself, you can not just look at a comp screen, on a message board, on the corner of the internet and expect people to find God for you. You have to look inside yourself and see him in al the good things and in all the bad things. Every thing has a reason, and once you find God you will find your awnser.

but until then don't look at us and say "ok prove it", because if you wanted to belive and see him for what he is then you would.

oh yea, I'm a devout Catholic if you want to know.

[Wanker]

Originally posted by Toad
More importantly, what is Florida's plan for the murderer if/when he is eventually caught and convicted?

I recommend a slow, cruel death. I'll be happy to volunteer to participate. That's what *my* plan would be.

[ra]

banana,

You say you are trying to understand but you aren't.   You are childishly asserting that Man's flaws proove that there is no God.  There may be no God, but murdering a child does not prove anything one way or the other.

Man has free will, so he is free to be evil.  God did not plan for this girl to be murdered.  We are not robots, we get to chose our own actions.

ra

[Bodhi]

I do not believe that God has a specific plan for each one of us, I do however believe that he will meet us when our time to leave here is done.  It is kind of like God creating everyone, and if there is aplan, why doesn't everyone believe and everything is honkey dorey?  Well, it is because God gave us free choice when he made us.  That means basically there will be strife and hardship on this earth, as Satan tries to tempt us all.  Carlie's freedom was interupted by someone who chose to do so.  Hopefully this person has not killed her, but if he has, then hopefully God will forgive them.  One last thing to remember, the earth is but a temporary stop over where we prove (by our choices to believe or not, and act accordingy) to God that we are worthy of the glory that we will share in heaven.  HArd to swallow for a non-believer, but taken as what will happen for me if I follow the word.  Hope you work it out, the consequences of not are permanent.  Will keep you in my prayers bananas that something happens to help you along the path.... sadly it took my brother's death to finally nudge me down it.

[Gunthr]

banana, I think you are barking up the wrong tree in your search for God.


I'm familure with all the agnostic agonizing over evidence, proof, signs, etc., in which one seeks irrefuteble proof of the existance of God. It just isn't there.

For me, it all boils down to: Do you want to believe in God or don't you?

Personally, I do. I refuse to believe that our existance has no meaning. In my belief, we are very, very small, and God is very, very big in scope. We cannot understand God. Our suffering is temporary, and in the backdrop of eternity, unimportant.

Whether you consider this an act of will or an act of faith, thats what it comes down to: Do you or don't you want God?

If you do want God, you have an answer to your question: Of course this murder is in God's plan.