Author Topic: God ?  (Read 7715 times)

Offline Nath[BDP]

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God ?
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2004, 08:45:53 PM »
Brahms > Wagner

God discussions are boring.  Demigods, on the other hand...
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Offline Raubvogel

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« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2004, 08:55:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Munkii
Budda shouldn't be covered in this discussion, Buddah is not omnipotent, nor is he a diety.  He was a philosopher, and true buddists realize that.  There are other buddists that worship him as a diety as well as Kuan Ying beside him.


Thanks for making my point. Who knows which method of worship is correct? Is the higher power going to be insulted because you didn't face Mecca and pray 3 times a day, or are you doing it injustice by just going to church once a week and singing some sings? No one knows, it's all just a WAG. I'd like to think that this higher power would be able to measure your actions by themselves, not by how much money you put in a collection plate, or how many little fish or bumper stickers you have plastered on your Dodge Caravan.

Offline Munkii

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« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2004, 08:57:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raubvogel
Thanks for making my point. Who knows which method of worship is correct? Is the higher power going to be insulted because you didn't face Mecca and pray 3 times a day, or are you doing it injustice by just going to church once a week and singing some sings? No one knows, it's all just a WAG. I'd like to think that this higher power would be able to measure your actions by themselves, not by how much money you put in a collection plate, or how many little fish or bumper stickers you have plastered on your Dodge Caravan.


Eh, you have pretty much the same belief system that I have.  I'm an athiest, but I believe that if there is a god, he would overlook my non belief in lieu of my actions.  I would lead what Christians would concider a good moral life, but I don't believe in god.  If there is one, and I'm not accepted because I didn't follow their religion or ever acknowledge their existance, than I probably didn't want to spend an afterlife with them anyways.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2004, 09:01:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Nice try Mcgroin. You presumed much when you typed this.. and presumed incorrectly.  This thought was the foundation that induced me to look into religion. My faith sprang from there.

Good thing you like flaming here in the threads, if there is a God in the christian sense, you'll be flaming for a very looooooong time.


I presumed nothing Steve, I started my comment with "If this is the basis of your faith,"  this qualification makes the rest of my statement proper.

Intresting that you qualified your argument by saying "if there is a God in the christian sense" a Freudian slip indicating a seed of doubt which a true beliver would not posess.

Unless of course you celebrate wiccan, hindu, or some other religion which does not share the single God of Abraham, who is revered by Christianity, Judism, and Islam.

>edit for pronoun use
« Last Edit: February 08, 2004, 01:17:09 AM by Holden McGroin »
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2004, 09:14:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Munkii
I would lead what Christians would concider a good moral life, but I don't believe in god.  If there is one, and I'm not accepted because I didn't follow their religion or ever acknowledge their existance, than I probably didn't want to spend an afterlife with them anyways.


Actually I'm fairly confident that Christ would say you live a life in denial since no man may come to the Father but through him (since all who have sinned fall short of the glory of the Lord). There are many who "claim" to be Christians that he would tell that to as well. Some of them would be quite altruistic in nature. Good Samaritans in every sense of the word except they're stuck in the mindset that they're earning their way into heaven. That's a deception that may surprise them in the end.

It's not supposed to be an "exclusive club" anyhow. It doesn't matter what Christians think and they don't vote you into heaven. It does require asking for forgiveness of sin and acknowledging the man named Jesus who grew up in a Middle Eastern town called Nazareth a couple millenia back as the true son of God who died to be a sacrifice for everyone else's sin. That's the most basic description of what the Christian faith is all about. Religious doctrine came from another source entirely.

Just sayin', bro.

The group most responsible for people not choosing to adopt the Christian faith are those who are sitting in the pews religiously, imo.

*ShruG*
« Last Edit: February 08, 2004, 02:27:26 AM by Arlo »

Offline Munkii

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« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2004, 11:14:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo

The group most responsible for people not choosing to adopt the Christian faith are those who are sitting in the pews religiously, imo.


A line worth a thousand words.


btw, shoot me an email arlo, dchesney@ou.edu I haven't been able to get in touch with anyone in the squad.. its like my IP is banned from squad board, and my e-mail keeps getting returned when I try to email anyone.

Offline Raubvogel

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« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2004, 12:52:18 AM »
Hey Munkii, I notice you're in OKC. I'm imprisoned in Lawton, if you're ever down this way shoot me a message and I'll buy ya a beer.

Offline Munkii

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« Reply #82 on: February 08, 2004, 01:26:50 AM »
If I'm ever down in Lawton I'll look you up, but I'd more than likely be trying to get out as fast as I could :aok   Not much here in Oklahoma, maybe that's why its appealing at times.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2004, 01:27:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Munkii

btw, shoot me an email arlo, dchesney@ou.edu I haven't been able to get in touch with anyone in the squad.. its like my IP is banned from squad board, and my e-mail keeps getting returned when I try to email anyone.


Will do. Been missing your presense and wondering what happened.

Offline Sundowner

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« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2004, 02:04:48 AM »
For the "Intellectuals" ?  :


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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2004, 02:14:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sundowner
For the "Intellectuals" ?  


Does anyone else see any irony in the above?

Someone else had something to say on the subject that I found rather insightful:
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
« Last Edit: February 08, 2004, 02:17:47 AM by Chairboy »
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Offline Batz

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« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2004, 02:34:27 AM »
http://www.fns.org.uk/ac.htm

Quote
18

The Christian concept of a god--the god as the patron of the sick, the god as a spinner of cobwebs, the god as a spirit--is one of the most corrupt concepts that has ever been set up in the world: it probably touches low-water mark in the ebbing evolution of the god-type. God degenerated into the contradiction of life. Instead of being its transfiguration and eternal Yea! In him war is declared on life, on nature, on the will to live! God becomes the formula for every slander upon the "here and now," and for every lie about the "beyond"! In him nothingness is deified, and the will to nothingness is made holy! . . .


Quote
62

--With this I come to a conclusion and pronounce my judgment. I condemn Christianity; I bring against the Christian church the most terrible of all the accusations that an accuser has ever had in his mouth. It is, to me, the greatest of all imaginable corruptions; it seeks to work the ultimate corruption, the worst possible corruption. The Christian church has left nothing untouched by its depravity; it has turned every value into worthlessness, and every truth into a lie, and every integrity into baseness of soul. Let any one dare to speak to me of its "humanitarian" blessings! Its deepest necessities range it against any effort to abolish distress; it lives by distress; it creates distress to make itself immortal. . . . For example, the worm of sin: it was the church that first enriched mankind with this misery!--The "equality of souls before God"--this fraud, this pretext for the rancunes of all the base-minded--this explosive concept, ending in revolution, the modern idea, and the notion of overthrowing the whole social order--this is Christian dynamite. . . . The "humanitarian" blessings of Christianity forsooth! To breed out of humanitas a self-contradiction, an art of self-pollution, a will to lie at any price, an aversion and contempt for all good and honest instincts! All this, to me, is the "humanitarianism" of Christianity!--Parasitism as the only practice of the church; with its anaemic and "holy" ideals, sucking all the blood, all the love, all the hope out of life; the beyond as the will to deny all reality; the cross as the distinguishing mark of the most subterranean conspiracy ever heard of,--against health, beauty, well-being, intellect, kindness of soul--against life itself. . . .

This eternal accusation against Christianity I shall write upon all walls, wherever walls are to be found--I have letters that even the blind will be able to see. . . . I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough,--I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race. . . .

And mankind reckons time from the dies nefastus when this fatality befell--from the first day of Christianity!--Why not rather from its last?--From today?--The transvaluation of all values! . . .

THE

END



THE ANTICHRIST  
by Friedrich Nietzsche

Asatru
Wotan mit uns!!!

Offline Sundowner

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« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2004, 02:36:40 AM »
Design Evidences in the Cosmos
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/design_evidences/designprobabilityupdate1998.shtml?main
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Table 3: An Estimate of the Probability for Attaining the Necessary Parameters for Life Support

 PARAM.NUM.
 PARAMETER
 PROBABILITY OF GALAXY, STAR, PLANET, PARAMETER OR MOON FALLING IN REQUIRED RANGE BY CHANCE (WITHOUT DIVINE DESIGN)
PARAM.

1 galaxy size 0.1
2 galaxy type 0.1
3 galaxy location 0.1
4 star location relative to galactic center 0.2
5 star distance from closest spiral arm 0.1
6 z-axis extremes of star's orbit 0.1
7 proximity of solar nebula to a supernova eruption 0.01
8 timing of solar nebula formation relative to supernova eruption 0.01
9 number of stars in system 0.2
10 star birth date 0.2
11 star age 0.4
12 star metallicity 0.05
13 star orbital eccentricity 0.1
14 star's distance from galactic plane 0.1
15 star mass 0.001
16 star luminosity relative to speciation 0.0001
17 star color 0.4
18 H3+ production 0.1
19 supernovae rates & locations 0.01
20 white dwarf binary types, rates, & locations 0.01
21 planetary distance from star 0.001
22 inclination of planetary orbit 0.5
23 axis tilt of planet 0.3
24 rate of change of axial tilt 0.01
25 planetary rotation period 0.1
26 rate of change in planetary rotation period 0.05
27 planetary orbit eccentricity 0.3
28 surface gravity (escape velocity) 0.001
29 tidal force 0.1
30 magnetic field 0.01
31 albedo 0.1
32 density 0.1
33 thickness of crust 0.01
34 oceans-to-continents ratio 0.2
35 rate of change in oceans to continents ratio 0.1
36 global distribution of continents 0.3
37 frequency & extent of ice ages 0.1
38 asteroidal & cometary collision rate 0.1
39 change in asteroidal & cometary collision rates 0.1
40 mass of body colliding with primordial earth  0.002
41 timing of body colliding with primordial earth 0.05
42 rate of change in ast. & comet collision rate 0.1
43 position & mass of Jupiter relative to Earth 0.01
44 major planet eccentricities 0.1
45 major planet orbital instabilities 0.1
46 drift and rate of drift in major planet distances 0.1
47 atmospheric transparency 0.01
48 atmospheric pressure 0.1
49 atmospheric electric discharge rate 0.1
50 atmospheric temperature gradient 0.01
51 carbon dioxide level in atmosphere 0.01
52 oxygen quantity in atmosphere 0.01
53 chlorine quantity in atmosphere 0.1
54 iron quantity in oceans 0.1
55 tropospheric ozone quantity 0.01
56 stratospheric ozone quantity 0.01
57 mesospheric ozone quantity 0.01
58 water vapor level in atmosphere 0.01
59 oxygen to nitrogen ratio in atmosphere 0.1
60 quantity of greenhouse gases in atmosphere 0.01
61 quantity of forest & grass fires 0.01
62 quantity of sea salt aerosols 0.1
63 soil mineralization 0.1
64 quantity of decomposer bacteria in soil 0.01
65 quantity of mycorrhizal fungi in soil 0.01
66 quantity of nitrifying microbes in soil 0.01
67 quantity of soil sulfur 0.1
68 quantity of sulfur in the life planet's core 0.1
69 tectonic activity 0.1
70 rate of decline in tectonic activity 0.1
71 volcanic activity 0.1
72 rate of decline in volcanic activity 0.1
73 viscosity at Earth core boundaries 0.01
74 biomass to minicomet infall ratio 0.01
75 regularity of minicometary infall 0.1


Dependency Factors Estimate: 100,000,000,000.

Longevity Requirements Estimate: .00001

Probability for occurrence of all 75 parameters: approx. 10^ -99

Maximum possible number of planets in universe: approx. 10^ 22

Much less than 1 chance in a hundred thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion exists that even one such planet would occur anywhere in the universe.
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2004, 02:42:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz

THE ANTICHRIST  
by Friedrich Nietzsche



It's you. But still .. care to elaborate instead of cutting and pasting Nietzsche as if that really settled the issue? :D

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2004, 02:57:02 AM »
Drake's equation disagrees with sundowner's post.

Nc = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

Drake calculator is in the link:


I got 40 communicating civilizations in our galaxy alone.

several orders of magnitude above that number if we just include life witout restrictions to intelligence.
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