Remorse for virtual death?

[Kieran]

Zigrat-

I am thankful for that last post- I didn't remember you as the type of player that enjoyed being asocial, and I can see that isn't really what you were driving at. S!

AmOn-

Lazs cheerleader? Only 10 or so posts worthy of note? I've spent a lot of time in this exchange of thoughts trying to discuss this with you; I'm hoping this hasn't been wasted time. Somehow I feel we are right back where we started...

Karnak-

Good points. Without a good reason to take risks, people won't if it means there is a stringent penalty. Tough to run a general arena that way.

[Am0n]

Originally posted by Karnak:
There is no such incentive in the MA.  I am not a Rookian defending my nation and people from the Knights and Bishops.  Its just an arbitrary side in a computer game fighting against other arbitrary sides and only fighting because that is what the game is about.  I have no motivation to really defend Rookland.

I am not sure that a playable balance can be found in a online flight sim between the two, and because it is a game it must err on the side of things that encourage action and combat.

That is how I see it anyways.

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

Awesome karnak, great point.

But being my self and believing that anything is possible if you apply your self it only leaves one thought in response to this.. How could one create that fealing, not just "protect this base" but protect this land, the grass, trees and the water that surrounds it. It would be nice to envoke the fealings that you stated are not present, they are indeed not there.

I'm sure its possible, but its most certainly not "one thing" thats going to make people feal that way. It would have to be a slew of things. Maybe this isnt something right for AH, but its good discussion none the less.

now you got me thinking, thanks for the food for thought.

--------------------------

Kieran
You spent 20 of your post trying to conveince me that my thoughts were wrong, in a unconstructive manner. But a few of your post were reasonable, yes you were part of the "10" (just used the number as an example). And you are also one of lazs cheerleaders  

[hitech]

Karnak:
 DING DING DING, Give the man a cigar, Those are the resones we don't give much a death penalty.

Basicly it comes down to, if the primary goal is living, why fight when you have a choice.

Ive experainced playing settups where death was to much a penality. On the extream is was a one life to live per night arena. In the not so extream it was AW's EOL system.

Players tended to always run if there was a small chance they might die by fighting.


HiTech

HiTech

[Kieran]

Happily a lazs cheerleader when I agree with him. Won't make the mistake of discussing anything with you in the future. Guess I could sum up my thoughts more bluntly and succinctly:

"You're wrong."  

[Pyemia]

I agree with you Aamon, there are people online who's only objective is to shoot you down regardless of what happens to them afterwards.  Good examples of this are the

* suicidal dives into a fully acked field to vulch someone"
* the guy who sits on your 6 even thou theres a friendly behind him blowing off peices of his plane
* the friendlies who dive into a 10 vs 1 and then scream for you to come help err die with them.
* the guys who's major objective is to force the HO on you regardless of the uber plane their in.

Of course these things never happened often in RL simply because RL pilots like other human beings have a strong survival instinct.  Unfortunately the only bad thing that happens in AH is "You have been Killed".  Then you get another plane and start again.  Stupid? Yes?  Solution? No  

Unfortunately people like you and me who actually wish to have some sort of reality based flight sim are few, the DM crowd however are the many and our wishes are therefore ignored to a large extent.  

HTC is a business which needs to turn a profit to survive obviously, so we'll just have to make do with what we have and perhaps wait for the DM crowd to grow up or a better more realistic game to come along.

Zygote.

[Pyemia]

Preferably something with electrodes and capacitors  

[Zigrat]

well  then we need to come up with a system thatmakes you really loyal towards you country,or give you something worthwhile to defend

as it is if you check my stats im logging less and less time into the main arena. why? because i think it is much like a drug habit. i have developed a tolerance, and there is no rush in ordinary main arena combat anymore. i used to dream about fights etcera. no longer, there isnt the rush. why? because there are no consequences for death, nor no strategic benefits to killing the enemy. its not exciting. a year agoin a good fight my heart would beat almost out of my chest when i was fighting a guy like rwy or nath but that never happens anymore.

[Apar]

I simply just ask what could add the fealing of "i must survive this sortie"  

How about electro shock, say 220V, whenever you die?    I'm sure they can develop a special joystick for it. HOTAS will get a whole new meaning  

[Kieran]

...so we'll just have to make do with what we have and perhaps wait for the DM crowd to grow up or a better more realistic game to come along.

Hope I never grow up.

[Am0n]

Pyemia


Yep, totaly agree.

you forgot about the suicide dive bombers killing cvs and gvs also. Theres tons of things im sure you could add to your list, so i shouldnt go on.

The biggest flaw in most games is meeting a equilibrium between realizm and game play, most fall way shorter of that objective than AH has.

It wouldnt be appropreite for one big change to have such effect but maybe a few smaller changes. Would be nice to here some more ideas from you all.

[Am0n]

Zigrat that could be a step in the right direction for sure.

I really dont have any ideas on that, but its most certianly a great idea.

[Pyemia]

How about every time you get shot down HTC bills your account $1 dollar and credits the shooter $.50


HT??????

 

[Kieran]

Zigrat-

What you are really describing is the fresh leaving the daisy. When you first enter a sim (or any activity) it's the excitement of knowing whether you measure up that motivates you to play so much.

Analogy: at age 30 I discovered running. It wasn't long before I could run with the club in town. They weren't elite by national standards by any means, but were pretty good on a state level. I began to travel to races with them, and enjoyed a mercurial rise in performance. It wasn't long before I became a challenger to win in most races I entered. I was euphoric, and began spending more and more time running (85 mile per week), committing more time to planning my training, strategizing my races, and traveling.

This I did for years, and loved it, but eventually I noticed something was missing. When I lined up to begin a race I no longer felt the high pulse, the anxious desire to look into the eyes of the competitors near me, or any sense of mystery. The fact was in the six years I was competitive I had explored every facet of the running game available to me (I raced everything from 1 mile to marathon), and the thrill of the unknown was gone.

I had, in my pursuit of "being the best" lost sight of the very essence of made running my passion for so long- the simple joy of running. I had made the best lifelong friends I have ever had, seen many sites I wouldn't have (I ran the 100th Boston Marathon), and enjoyed health benefits I would never have realized. Yet there I was, ready to give it up because I didn't enjoy racing anymore.

It wasn't because running wasn't real enough- it was. It wasn't because it wasn't challenging- it was and is. I lost my desire for running because I was familiar enough with it that I no longer had the great running unknown before me, I was established as a runner both in my mind and in those around me. I had reached the limits of my physical ability, I knew where the boundaries lay.

If you think making changes to this sim (changes that will drive people away) will change how you feel, think about what I've written. Remember how you used to feel when you started, how often you played, think about why that is. I started down that path here before, and I had to reel myself in. I don't want to burn myself out of the one thing I do now that gives me release from my real life. I choose to take a carefree approach to this game for good reason.  

[lazs1]

every furball is different to me.   Every minute spent flying around with no cons in site is the same to me.   I been doing this too many years to spend much time flying around with no cons in site.

Chasing dots is not any more fun or, maybe marginally more fun.  amon want's to increase "dead time" ... I would rather kill cons than time.
lazs

[Rude]

For me it's kinda like life...ya reap what ya sow. I personally lost that lovin feeling years ago. Rather than quit, I add my own incentives which motivate me to fly. Not dying to a dweeb or a vet has always been a strong motivator for me...I've even considered of late, changing the squads ride from the pony to maybe a P-38 or the F6F.

When I first began this hobby, I chose the AWDOS P-51 specifically because it was considered a non-performer...I thought if I could become proficient in the Pony even tho it was a dog, that would be an accomplishment.

Try and challenge yourself each sortie...it's not easy to do, but very rewarding if you can find that sacred ground  

P.S. I almost forgot the most important factor...the people I fly with. I know some of you do not respect the 13th TAS or even like us, but what you do not know, is that this squad is made up of some great people who I consider my friends. Flying with the right folks can make a huge difference as to whether or not you enjoy yourself.

Zig, maybe your just not fightin with passionate folks You should hang with us a bit...you might find you have more in common with us than you ever thought possible.

 

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Rude ]