Author Topic: A world without the US  (Read 7331 times)

Offline Capt. Pork

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A world without the US
« on: February 14, 2004, 11:12:32 AM »
I know there are quite a few amatuer historians out there. Probably even a couple professional ones. Either way, a bunch of guys that probably have an opinion on the following, purely theoretical, question:

What would the world be like if the US, in one fell swoop, pulled all of its forces back into its borders and reassumed a post-depression-era isolationist policy in regards to foreign conflicts. Note, this question concerns only the US ability to project military power, not monetary power. Non-military trade would not be affected directly, rather indirectly by the sudden lack of ubiquitously-present military muscle as potential leverage. In short, what would happen if our 'policing' ceased in the space of a single day? If Carrier groups no longer ventured outside US waters for reasons other than the direct defense of our shores? Moreoever, foreign powers, including unofficial groups such as terrorist organizations are not skeptical of this new policy--EI, they believe it. Finally, all sales of weapons is halted. Financial support to certain nations may continue, but not in the form of hardware.

That being said, I want people to know that I'm not trying to passively press for any specific answer. I myself am pretty moderate in my political stance, leaning towards the conservative end. I support our military completely, if not for the policies they advocate then simply for the men and women who serve. I believe in this country and am proud to be a citizen, but I am curious what a snapshot of the world would look like without our presence.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 11:19:01 AM by Capt. Pork »

Offline ra

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2004, 11:36:58 AM »
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In short, what would happen if our 'policing' ceased in the space of a single day?

The world political situation would become unstable and it would all be America's fault.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2004, 11:39:26 AM »
I suppose certain Scandinavian posters would have to resort to criticizing only our domestic policy.

Sorry, but you know this is doomed from the start, right? ;)

Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2004, 11:46:28 AM »
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Originally posted by Kieran
I suppose certain Scandinavian posters would have to resort to criticizing only our domestic policy.

Sorry, but you know this is doomed from the start, right? ;)


Yeah, I know... I was hoping certain people might be able to see beyond the opportunity to wield their wit. Oh well.

Offline Capt. Pork

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A world without the US
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2004, 11:47:18 AM »
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Originally posted by ra
The world political situation would become unstable and it would all be America's fault.


Is the world political situation stable now?

Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2004, 11:49:16 AM »
Straffo & I would take over the world.
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2004, 11:52:37 AM »
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Straffo & I would take over the world.

What about me? After all I'm from Germany and therefore I have the inherent desire to rule the world. :D

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2004, 11:55:02 AM »
Well, ok, here's a few shots, but by no means all-inclusive.

Let's start with Israel, since several guys have posted about it. Without American support, it's only a matter of time before the Muslim countries around it close in for the kill. Israel has only one recourse in that scenario. Remember, they have nukes.

Taiwan goes back to the Chinese. The end.

South Korea becomes part of just "Korea".

World relief organizations such as UNICEF and the RED CROSS go bankrupt.

The UN, sans a large portion of the military and operating budget, declines even more sharply than now.

France becomes the ruling country of Europe by virtue of the "European Union". This is happening anyway, but the prospect of becoming the "Superpower" spurs France on with increased fervor.

That's a good start. You fill in some blanks.

Offline Curval

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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2004, 11:59:52 AM »
The world would decend into violence and turmoil without the US.

Isn't that what this post is fishing for?

:rolleyes:
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Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2004, 12:03:02 PM »
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Originally posted by Curval
The world would decend into violence and turmoil without the US.

Isn't that what this post is fishing for?

:rolleyes:


No. Not at all. Like I said before, I'm not trying to advocate anything. This isn't a loaded question... Furthermore, the world seems to be in turmoil anyway, with or without the US.

Offline Curval

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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2004, 12:07:38 PM »
Okay Capt...my $0.02 is that it would be absolutely impossible for the US to return to an isonationalist stance world wide.

Who are you going to trade with?  How will the US get rid of its trade deficit that is higher than it has ever been?
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Offline weaselsan

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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2004, 12:16:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Duedel
What about me? After all I'm from Germany and therefore I have the inherent desire to rule the world. :D



Duedel would invade France and they would promptly surrender.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2004, 12:18:21 PM »
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Israel has never had US military support; she is quite capable of defending herself like she has done on numerous occasions in the past.


Who are you kidding? What do you think that money we send them is about? Why do you think the rest of the Muslim world doesn't just declare Jihad? Israel would never be able to defend itself against all of the Muslim world conventionally any more than North Viet Nam could have against the US without aid from communist countries. Further, the implied involvement of the US if things get too out of hand make a lot of the Muslim world think twice.

France wins the EU no matter what, true; but without the US presence, the need to grab the power vacuum would be immediate. An isolationist America doesn't only mean no military, it also means no economic rivalry. It means high tariffs to protect American industries. It means American money stays in America, and we no longer look out for world hunger, or humanitarian need. That is, after all, the very definition of "isolationism".

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2004, 12:22:06 PM »
Additionally- no way South Korea stays free. NK would cross that border 15 minutes after it was clear the US would not interfere. There wouldn't be any time whatsoever for developing nukes. China wouldn't stop it, China would be more than happy to see it happen.

Taiwan probably will go back to China- but with no US, it certainly WILL go back to Taiwan- unless Norway cares to step up to stare China down. ;) UN sure isn't gonna do anything about it, is it now?

Offline Curval

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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2004, 12:23:32 PM »
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Originally posted by Kieran
Israel would never be able to defend itself against all of the Muslim world conventionally any more than North Viet Nam could have against the US without aid from communist countries.


Israel has already done so...twice.
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