Author Topic: Ta152 is ... (Read 1917 times)

Wlfgng · « **Reply #45 on:** December 13, 2001, 05:18:00 PM »

I have to agree with Santa.. when I need to grab the elevator to the top.. intercepting HQ raids etc...it rules!

A tad expensive though...

Eaglecz · « **Reply #46 on:** December 14, 2001, 08:41:00 AM »

TA`s perks are as good as they are.
I dont wanna see HOing then running TA152
like those ubbber LA7.51 lames

Karnak · « **Reply #47 on:** December 14, 2001, 11:18:00 AM »

Urchin,

I have two books, which now that I look closer, do not seem in any agreement whatsoever. Yesterday they did.

I simply grabbed the book that had the numbers listed in the easiest to copy form and typed them in, I'm not insisting that they are correct though.

My sources:

Fighters of World War II
Editied by David Donald
MetroBooks
ISBN: 1-56799-684-1

Page 105 has a table titled "Focke-Wulf Fw 190 and Ta 152 variants"

The table includes these lines:

Ta 152H: high-altitude fighter; Jumo 213E; three modified Fw 190 prototypes (Fw 190V29, V30 and V32) completed
Ta 152H-0: 20 pre-production aircraft built at Cottbus in 1944; Jumo 213EB; R11, R21 and R31 variants with engine boost and radio variations
Ta 152H-1: one prototype (Ta 152V26) modified from Ta152E-2 and about a dozen production examples completed; Ta 152H-10 was a fighter reconnaissance version not completed at the end of the war

That is all the Ta152H versions listed in this book.
I got my Tempest numbers from from a table on page 124 of this book as well.

The History of German Aviation
KURT TANK:
FOCKE-WULF's DESIGNER AND TEST PILOT
By Wolfgang Wangner
Translated by Don Cox
Schiffer Military History
ISBN: 0-7643-0644-8

On page 183, paragraph 1 includes this sentence:

"Approximately 150 aircraft are reputed to have been manufactured at the Cottbus works before the Soviets occupied the city."

I did not see this line yesterday.

What I did see in my extemely quick glance at this book was the data in a table on page 187, which follows:

TA 152 Production Aircraft Built by Cottbus Focke-Wulft Works*
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ___
Type | Werknummer | Engine | Notes
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ___
Ta-152H- | 15001 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing **only 115 ltr long range tank, production from January 1945
Ta-152H-0 | 15002 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15003 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15004 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15005 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15006 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15007 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15008 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15009 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15010 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15011 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15012 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15013 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15014 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15015 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15016 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15017 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-0 | 15018 | Jumo 213E | 19.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-1 | 15019 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing 6 soft-skinne fuel cells in wings, MG-1 and MW 50 systems, produced from 1/45 to 3/45
Ta-152H-1 | 15020 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-1 | 15021 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-1 | 15022 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-1 | 15023 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-1 | 15024 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-1 | 15025 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing
Ta-152H-1 | 15026 | Jumo 213E | 23.5 m² wing
V27 C-3 | 15027 | H-0 conversion to C-3 with DB 603L, planned for production from 6/45
V27 C-3 | 15030 | H-0 conversion to C-3 with DB 603L, planned for production from 6/45
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ___
*Table is not complete
**Werknummer 150001 to 1500018 had the 19.5 m² wing (My note to this note, these numbers do not match those in the table, an zero was added here or omitted there)

Because this table was described as not complete, and showed fewer aircraft the the other book, I went with the other book's numbers.

I would like to see stronger evidence than "reputed" about the 150 production number.

EDIT: Edited the table for greater legibility.

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

Zippatuh · « **Reply #48 on:** December 14, 2001, 11:23:00 AM »

I don’t think that I have ever flown a TA before. Seeing one doesn’t make my hair stand like a Tempest does either. As a matter of fact, when Mandoble took my P51 out in a TA, my first reaction was “I can’t believe he got that POS turned around on me”. I ended up on the short end of a rope about 150 meters out of gun range, argggggg!

So what does this all mean you ask? THE F4U-4 IS EXTREMELY OVERPRICED!!!

Zippatuh

Urchin · « **Reply #49 on:** December 14, 2001, 05:42:00 PM »

I'd like to see more reliable numbers too. It is odd, the Germans had such an anal reputation for maintaining their paperwork, I guess it sort of broke down towards the end of the war.

I'm getting some cool books for Christmas, I'll look around in there and see if I can dig anything up.

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #50 on:** December 14, 2001, 06:22:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak:
Urchin,

...
My sources:

Fighters of World War II
Editied by David Donald
MetroBooks
ISBN: 1-56799-684-1
...

Karnak,

I also have a couple of books edited by David Donald. I find that he makes glaring errors fairly often. In one book, he identifies one of the most famous squadron photos of WW2, the one of the "Blacksheep" standing in front of a Corsair with ballcaps on, as an "unidentified baseball team visiting a Marine Corsair unit". I've never been big on studying the performance or production statistics, but his identification of units, their markings, etc leaves much to be desired... I'd use the other source!

And just to keep this on subject, leave the Ta perked, but reduce the cost to the same as the Chog.

HaMmeR
netAces.org

Urchin · « **Reply #51 on:** December 14, 2001, 08:06:00 PM »

Also, about the 'high altitude' buff killing ability of the Ta-152.. I hate to break it to you guys, but the 152 isn't any better at it then any other fighter. The B17 is leaps and bounds above any fighter, performance-wise, at 30k+. I'd say it is probably the most potent high altitude fighter we have in Aces High, it deserves to be perked at least 30 points for that alone. <sarcasm...>.

Seriously though, it only takes about 20-25 rounds from a B-17 to bring down any of the LW planes (haven't tried it with any of the other planes), while it takes about 15 30mm rounds (unless you have excellent aim), or about 60-70 20mm rounds to bring down the bomber. I'd say at 30k, in a co-alt fight between a B-17 and the Ta-152, the B-17 has about a 75% chance of winning. The Ta-152 has about a 10% chance of both shooting down the B-17 and not sustaining heavy damage.