The Best Fighter Aircraft of all Time

[Angus]

Rumour went that the Harriers actually dodged the IR missiles, but I have not seen it confirmed in post-war accounts.
I think that in air-to-air combat their record was close to 30 vs 0.
Bear in mind that the Argentinian Air force had about ten times the amount of aircraft as the British in that engagement, - rather a unique situation in a western force engagement in the latest years.

[cobia38]

A20

[Cobra412]

How can you make a judgement call that the F-15 is worse than the SU-27 by maneuverability specs alone?  A planes maneuverability in this day and age means little when the fights come from BVR.  

I highly doubt anyone here has even the slightest idea what both aircraft are capable let alone even one of them when it comes to their avionics packages.  That is what makes the aircraft in a BVR fight not their maneuverability.  I can guarantee that atleast on one side of this debate there are capabilities of one of these aircraft that many here couldn't even fathom.  

Don't judge a book by it's cover or by many of the minute bits of  information that you can find on the web.  They are very misleading and won't ever cover what the aircrafts real capabilities are.  Debating over who's better purely by flight characteristics is silly.  

Do you honestly think that all that data you find out there is extremely precise?  Do you honestly think that with todays technology any of these aircraft would even come that close to where maneuverability is the key to winning the fight?  Though systems like JHCMS have come out to counter the Russian aircrafts extreme maneuverability it's only there just incase it comes into a close dogfight.  Guns are still used just incase.  The F4 found out the hard way during Vietnam that the gun was still needed for those just in case scenarios hence why it's still placed on modern fighters.  The probability of them being used in a dogfight is slim to none but they dont' want another F4 incident.

With how the information battle field has grown to allow data link capabilities across the AOR the probability of getting jumped is very slim.

[Steve]

Ask Voss, I'm sure he's flown both.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Angus
Rumour went that the Harriers actually dodged the IR missiles, but I have not seen it confirmed in post-war accounts.
I think that in air-to-air combat their record was close to 30 vs 0.
Bear in mind that the Argentinian Air force had about ten times the amount of aircraft as the British in that engagement, - rather a unique situation in a western force engagement in the latest years.

Actually I think the Argentinian were doomed just because thier plane were not based in the Malouines and so having range problem (I know I should have typed Falkland )

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by VooDoo
I have russian document about comparing Su-27 to F-15, F16 and Tornado G-2. Its a bit less optimistic than you .

Altitude 4000-7000 meters. Speed 300-600 kmh.

Instantaneous maneuvering  - Su-27 markedly better.
Continuous maneuvering - same abilities.
Acceleration and energetic climb - same abilities.

Altitude 4000-7000 meters. Speed 600-800 kmh.

Instantaneous maneuvering  - same abilities.
Continuous maneuvering - same abilities.
Acceleration and energetic climb - same abilities.

Altitude 200-4000 meters. Speed 300-600 kmh.

Instantaneous maneuvering  - Su-27 markedly better.
Continuous maneuvering - Su-27 better.
Acceleration and energetic climb - F-15 better.

Altitude 200-4000 meters. Speed 500-1050 kmh.

Instantaneous maneuvering  - same abilities.
Continuous maneuvering - F-15 better.
Acceleration and energetic climb - F-15 better.

Altitude 200-4000 meters. Speed above 1050 kmh.

Instantaneous maneuvering  - same abilities.
Continuous maneuvering - F-15 markedly better.
Acceleration and energetic climb - F-15 better.

The funny thing is that Su-27 loadout was 2xK-73 and 2xK-27 and F-15 - 4xAIM-7 and 4xAIM-9.

I want to see the Su-37 in the same comparison.

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by Angus
Rumour went that the Harriers actually dodged the IR missiles, but I have not seen it confirmed in post-war accounts.
I think that in air-to-air combat their record was close to 30 vs 0.

But how many did they lose in 'accidents'?

[Angus]

8 I belive.
Not sure about accidents as such, I recall an out-of-fuel case and some cases where the aircraft were shot down by man carried missiles/sams.
It's probably all available on the net, just picking this from memory from news reading 22 years ago....

[Straiga]

The best Fighters of WWII, where the combine efforts of the allied pilots and ground troops fighting in the Air, Land and Sea against the germans onslot or in the pacific against the Japanise.

Let Freedom Ring!