Author Topic: Vehicles In General (Read 13049 times)

SKurj · « **Reply #30 on:** October 17, 2000, 09:12:00 AM »

ok my thoughts...

As a "TEAM" player who loves the strat aspects of the game I find the spawn points for vehicles too close to my A bases. When a base is under attack by ground pounders I can't help but try to defend against them. My best odds are in a panzer. HOWEVER, last night the continuous stream of vehicles into one of our bases kept me on the ground defending for a couple of hours!! Grrr

During that time, I was not able to work on my A-A skills at all. I love the dogfight, its why I fly these sims, but I cannot ignore a friendly base in need of defence from vehicles. Sure I can go bomb that VH, and slow them down momentarily, and by the time I land the VH is back up and away we go again.

My suggestions... reduce the osty's effectiveness against buildings, give it a reload time (possibly after a # of rounds) reduce its ammo load.

Hey if the Axis had more than 40 or so of these things in the war (modelled like in AH) we'd all might be speaking german now!!!

SKurj

LLv34_Camouflage · « **Reply #31 on:** October 17, 2000, 09:25:00 AM »

Dingy, my good friend, I agree with you. The vehicle spawn points should be moved further away from the airfields.

This is my cure for the flak-rash: the next time you get frustrated with the flaks running around your airfield - ignore them and go for a fighter sweep. Take a wingie and fly across the mountains: I'm sure you'll be greeted with a hostile welcoming committee.

And have you tried the scenarios yet? The med league is flown again tonight.

Camo

------------------
Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

RAS · « **Reply #32 on:** October 17, 2000, 12:17:00 PM »

Dingy.....not sure what the answer is, but have seen some very good posts on possible fixes.....agree with you, though, "something" needs to change regarding the vehicles in Aces.

<S> Dingy

RAS

Lephturn · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2000, 01:29:00 PM »

I really like the idea of AI mortar teams at the bases.

How awsome would it be to have mortar rounds falling around your base as the incoming armour gets within range. Think of the explosions, the great spouts of mud and dirt thrown into the air as the rounds explode.

Minelayers would be interesting too. You'd have to give them limited ammo though, and have the mines "vanish" after a period of time I would think.

Dingy makes good points above, especially about the spawn points being so close. I also find it tough to beleive an Osty could take out a panzer as easily as they can in the game. Maybe I'm wrong though, that's just speculation.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl

Mighty1 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2000, 02:32:00 PM »

Dingy most bases take 15-20 min before you are with in range.

I've been diving ground vehicle since day 1 and I can tell you that the way it is now is fair IMHO to all sides.

You might not think so but imagine if you had to drive for 1/2 hour just to be able to see a base only to get killed by an AC that drops bombs on you well out of your firing range.

How long would you continue to fly?

Ground vehicles add a lot to this game and to say you want to get rid of them because you don't want to take the time to guard your base from them is silly.

------------------
Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"

Ripsnort · « **Reply #35 on:** October 17, 2000, 02:51:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mighty1:
Dingy most bases take 15-20 min before you are with in range.

I've been diving ground vehicle since day 1 and I can tell you that the way it is now is fair IMHO to all sides.

You might not think so but imagine if you had to drive for 1/2 hour just to be able to see a base only to get killed by an AC that drops bombs on you well out of your firing range.

How long would you continue to fly?

Ground vehicles add a lot to this game and to say you want to get rid of them because you don't want to take the time to guard your base from them is silly.

I concur with Mighty. I enjoy driving tanks just as much as I enjoy killing tanks with A/C and my tank. Anymore than 15 min drive, and no one would drive them (remember before we had spawn points? The honeymoon was over on vehicles 2 weeks after they implemented them due to distances one had to drive from field to to field)

hazed- · « **Reply #36 on:** October 17, 2000, 04:10:00 PM »

I agree with rip and mighty1.
vehicles add to this game and i want them to stay personally
i would like to see:
Shermans
Panthers
Tigers
T34's
artillery
jeeps
gliders towed behind b26's

EVERYTHING mwahahaha

my vote is to keep em and increase em

hazed jg2

Eagler · « **Reply #37 on:** October 17, 2000, 04:23:00 PM »

How about these: http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/fjagdpanther.htm

Eagler

[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 10-17-2000).]

Kieren · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2000, 06:21:00 PM »

Anything that expands gameplay without fudging history too much (a hard target, to be sure) is great by me.

Ground vehicles will be a part of any successful online flight sim, and we all might as well get used to it. And why should it be any different? It's floor-to-the-ceiling action all the time, and soon the Navy will be coming.

"But one Ostwind shouldn't kill a base!" Neither should even three Lancasters drop an HQ, though no one seems to have a problem there. Sure, it should take an armored assault to take a field assuming someone is home and defending! Washington crossed the Delaware and took the Hessian army without a shot because they were asleep! The point is, if a side doesn't want to or is too overwhelmed to defend a base, a cannon-armed vehicle will certainly close it down. Whether it is one or three makes no difference at all.

Many is the time I have taken one F4U or P47 to a vehicle base, rocketed the ack, strafed the hangar, then returned a few moments later with the C-47. Easy capture, ridiculous methodology from a realism standpoint. Still, it is an acceptable game concession.

And let's not forget another thing; some hours the population of the arena is considerably lower. This means that in order for players to take advantage of some of the strat of the game, lower numbers of units are required to gain the necessary results. Granted, it shouldn't be too low of a number, but where is the line to be drawn?

If it was impossible to kill an Ostwind or Panzer I could see the argument. If you could not tell from the radar there might be vehicles near your base, I might see the argument. Fact is, neither case is true. Before anyone launches from a field the first thing they should do is check the radar. If you see a red bar in your sector, assume a vehicle is nearby. Watch for the ack to be firing off in the distance, at a low angle of incidence.

The truth is, only a very crafty Ostwind or Panzer jock is able to stay off field in the "oh-so-perfect" target range where they can kill buildings undetected. And if they are at that distance, chances are takeoff won't be particularly difficult.

Dingy · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2000, 10:05:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mighty1:
Dingy most bases take 15-20 min before you are with in range.

I've been diving ground vehicle since day 1 and I can tell you that the way it is now is fair IMHO to all sides.

You might not think so but imagine if you had to drive for 1/2 hour just to be able to see a base only to get killed by an AC that drops bombs on you well out of your firing range.

How long would you continue to fly?

Ground vehicles add a lot to this game and to say you want to get rid of them because you don't want to take the time to guard your base from them is silly.

Sorry Mighty,

I dont think you are following the thread here. No one is asking to move spawn points so vehicles have to drive 1/2 hour. Most do agree that vehicles should have to drive at least as long as air units must fly to close a VH (which seems to be about 10-15 minutes before they are in range).

A well coordinated ground strike can take fields VERY effectively as previous versions have shown.

All we are trying to do is reduce the frequency of solitary strikes on airfields with no intent on capture. This is a flight sim for godsakes...not a tank sim.

-Ding

Dingy · « **Reply #40 on:** October 17, 2000, 10:09:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
I concur with Mighty. I enjoy driving tanks just as much as I enjoy killing tanks with A/C and my tank. Anymore than 15 min drive, and no one would drive them (remember before we had spawn points?

Although I would like to see them go, I understand that they are here to stay (and I can live with that). Im just disillusioned with the current ease ground units have to suppress an airfield. If it takes 15 minutes for an airstrike to suppress a field, the same should apply to ground units correct, or do we want to unevenly weight ground units?

-Ding

Dingy · « **Reply #41 on:** October 17, 2000, 10:15:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieren:
"But one Ostwind shouldn't kill a base!" Neither should even three Lancasters drop an HQ, though no one seems to have a problem there.

Many is the time I have taken one F4U or P47 to a vehicle base, rocketed the ack, strafed the hangar, then returned a few moments later with the C-47. Easy capture, ridiculous methodology from a realism standpoint. Still, it is an acceptable game concession.

A lancaster if it is shot down cant respawn over your HQ immediately. A P47 or F4U which closes a field has to fly 10-15 minutes to get back to that field if it gets shot down.

As it stands now, an Osty spawns within range of the field as soon as it is killed. And it keeps respawning, over and over and over again. Thats the imbalance Im talking about. Move the spawn points out.

-Ding

Pongo · « **Reply #42 on:** October 17, 2000, 10:25:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick:
Ding,

Imagine what it would be like with "perk" vehicles!!!

Mav

Ostwind is definatly what should be considered a perk vehicle. No Medium or heavy tank is gona have any where near the effect on the game that the Ost has.

Stiglr · « **Reply #43 on:** October 18, 2000, 03:41:00 PM »

Amazing to hear people who trumpet endlessly (and rightfully so) about realism and accuracy also voficerously defend the Quakedweeb ground game, which lacks so many of the basic tenets to be a respectable viable system in AH.

As done now, vehicles have absolutely no reason to be in the game, except to provide the Beavis and Butthead factor (e.g., hehehe, cool, I just blew something up, hehehehe)...

1) The most popular vehicle had fewer than 100 made; as it is now, they're ubiquitous.
2) The vehicle environment has no semblance to how they were used in real life. Their tactics and application are airforce centric, and as such, totally misguided.
3) The "simulation" of tanking gunnery and maneuver isn't reflected, particularly on a ground map that's designed for aircraft scale.

[This message has been edited by Stiglr (edited 10-18-2000).]

sling322 · « **Reply #44 on:** October 18, 2000, 04:47:00 PM »

I dont know what bases you guys are spawning from, but I have yet to find one where I am in range at the spawn point. Each one that I have seen is at least 10 to 15 minutes from the target base. Maybe I am just on the wrong side of the map.