Author Topic: Appeasement Works  (Read 1348 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2004, 05:57:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Naso
I must stay calm, and be rational.

...

...

The main difference between the majority of Europeans posters and the majority of US posters here is in a basic fact:

the perception about the War, invasion, call as you want, of Iraq.

In the US point of view, Iraq war is part of war on terror.

In the Euro point of view Iraq war IS NOT part of war on terror.

Understanding this is a good start to find a common ground to start discuss, and stop pissing each other.

Unless someone here have a personal agenda to create new enemies.


And the majority of the internatioal islamic terrorists are quite clear on this issue, for them the war in Iraq is part of their terror war.

Do you understand that?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2004, 06:00:25 PM »
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Yup, because we made them see it that way. So, we really ourselves to blame for the terrorist attack in Spain.
-SW


LOL :)

I blame the full devestation of WW2 on the British and French for finally standing up to Hitler and his outrageous behavior and violation of past agreements....

But seriously it wasnt an American who set those bombs off, it was a bunch of isalamic terrorists who couldnt now be happier at their awesome sucess in breaking Spain away from the coalition.

WTG Azziz, Ahmed and Talil...

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2004, 06:05:47 PM »
Right, well, we still have yet to find the WMDs which actually make them there violations.

Blame Spain, but turn a blind eye towards our own government... whatever floats your boat.

Anyway, I'm out for the weekend.
-SW

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2004, 06:20:55 PM »
300,000 Iraqis massacred by a despotic regime equals a terrorist act.  The paying of rewards to the families of suicide bombers in Israel equals support of terrorism.

A bigger crime would have been to allow these things to continue.  It would be the height of hypocrisy for us to decry the Holocaust and yet learn nothing from it.

It is laughable to suggest that we should have waited on permission and support from the U.N.  That agency is a broken reed and has become the political tool of third world rogue regimes.  Quite a number of industries and government leaders from the U.N.'s  member nations were eye-deep participants in Saddam's economic and political machinations.  

Sometimes it is in the best interests of the United States, and the world at large, for us to act like Cowboys.


Shuckins/Leggern

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2004, 06:35:58 PM »
Shultzie,

Go to http://www.google.com

Type in "Mass Graves of Iraq."

Surf the sites for an hour.

Then come back to the boards and continue to pontificate about the invasion of Iraq not being justified.

I have been monitoring the discussions about Iraq on these boards for months now, and I have yet to get a lucid response to that suggestion.

Or is the massacre of innocents not germaine to the point you're trying to make?

Shuckins

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2004, 06:39:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Right, well, we still have yet to find the WMDs which actually make them there violations.

Blame Spain, but turn a blind eye towards our own government... whatever floats your boat.

Anyway, I'm out for the weekend.
-SW


I blame the terrorists for the deaths, they are the ones who push the button.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2004, 06:57:21 PM »
Oh my, how clever.

It must be true what they say, that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

By the by, your smugness, I AGREE that action should be taken in Africa.  In Sudan, and Ethiopia, and in whatever other areas where massacre and rape and slave trading happen to be taking place.

There...are you happy now?

Shuckins

Offline Torque

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« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2004, 06:58:28 PM »
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Originally posted by Shuckins


A bigger crime would have been to allow these things to continue.  It would be the height of hypocrisy for us to decry the Holocaust and yet learn nothing from it.

Shuckins/Leggern


Oh but you did or do you not know your own country's history on the matter?

And i believe it was the UN that wanted to condemn Saddam after the Anfal Campaign and especially after the incident at Halajba, only to have the US say it would veto any sanctions in a sub committe.

 A few months after the Halajba genocide teh US gave Saddam another billion in credit and squashed the emergency bill  "The Prevention of genocide Act" in the house.

The US was Iraq's biggest trading partner during the majority of the genocide and you were saying about hypocrisy and the UN?

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2004, 07:05:02 PM »
Torque,

I stand by my original statement.  It would have been a bigger crime to allow it to continue.

Or do you disagree with that?

It is a crime for any country to remain silent while acts such as that are being committed.

What actions did the Canadian government take to stop the genocide in Iraq?

There's plenty of blame to go around.

The U.S. has earned a certain measure of redemption because our government finally came to its senses.

Regards, Shuckins

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2004, 07:09:33 PM »
I hasn't been confirmed yet that there are anywhere near 300,000 dead people in mass graves.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2004, 08:02:56 PM »
Thrawn,

The final number has not been confirmed yet because of the enormity of the task of digging up and identifying the bodies.

Human Rights Watch conservatively estimates at least 290,000 people are missing in Iraq.

USAID (U.S. Agency for International Development) reports that since Saddam was outsted 270 sites of mass graves have been reported.

Tony Blair puts the remains at 400,000.

William Haglund, an archaeologist for Physicians for Human Rights, says there are an estimated 300,000 missing...and that the identification process is a 50 year job.

CNN reported that an Iraqi forensic team expects to find 15,000 bodies at one grave site near Mahawil, Iraq, 55 miles south of Baghdad.

Archaeologists for Human rights estimates that during the Anfal Campaign of 1987-1999, Saddam's "Final Solution" to the "Kurdish question," 4000 villages were destroyed, thousands were deported, and as many as 182,000 disappeared.  Young Kurdish women were kidnapped and sold to Egyptian night clubs.

An exact number may never be ascertained.  Whether it was 1,000 or 1,000,000 the invasion that toppled Saddam was justified.

Schultzie, your anti-American diatribe is unseemly.  We were in no danger of running out of oil before we invaded Iraq...If that is what you're referring to.  The scenes of Shi'ite Iraqis rejoicing in the streets after Saddam's fall were genuine.  Whether Saddam's overthrow was accomplished by Bush or Clinton makes no difference to me...it was the RIGHT thing to do.   Period.

Shuckins

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2004, 08:44:56 PM »
wow, all I can say is....black helicopters and foil hats

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2004, 08:48:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Like I said ... it's a tragedy.


what's a tragedy?

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2004, 09:06:25 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Iraq was invaded because if you let Hussein get away with his switch to the Euro, other nations might follow his example. If that happened the United States of America would wake up one morning to find itself in economical ruin. It is only a matter of time, and the fall gets higher every day you postpone it by force.

To think that the US, or any other nation would unilaterally invade another nation to "save its people from a ruthless dictator" is so preposterously naive that I would be inclined to laugh if not for the tragedy that you and many others actually believe it.

There...are you happy now?


Sorry, but you need to be called out on this one.

First, where did you get the proof that this is why Iraq was invaded? And YOU would laugh at people that won't believe what you just posted? LOL... how ironic. You are so far out on a limb with that theory it isn't even funny.

Didn't you once say that you were not against invading Iraq, rather you were against the reasons listed?

Didn't the UN believe that Iraq had WMD and didn't they give Iraq "one last chance" to come clean? I guess the USA was putting pressure on the UN so we could keep buying oil with US dollars.

Oh, is it not true that Iraq had kicked out all the UN inspectors. Is it not true that the ONLY reason on God's green earth that Iraq allowed inspectors back in was that the USA put the REAL threat of force to him?

Some people are so consumed with hate/jealousy/ you name it, that they can't help but not see the forest for the trees.

Just sickening the lack of common sense and logic. Sickening.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2004, 09:47:01 PM »
Quote
[

Didn't you once say that you were not against invading Iraq, rather you were against the reasons listed?

>>> Yes, and I obviously still am, for the same reasons.





They have a word for that...it called hypocrite.

How can you honestly justify this position?

Are saying that you basically agree with the  UN assesment of  Iraq's WMD, that you have no problem with the actual invasion of Iraq based on that assesment, but that, since the UN didn't approve, you are against the invasion of Iraq and therefore are unhappy about the fact that Iraq was invaded?

So you both approve and dissaprove of the invasion of Iraq?