Author Topic: Prisoner Abuse (Read 6423 times)

Duedel · « **Reply #45 on:** May 06, 2004, 10:57:55 AM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
yep, looks like we may have some bad apples ... pls point out an army that doesn't

they will be made a huge example of .. would not want to be in their shoes

not knowing what the "prisoners" did before they were captured, I withhold judgement on those that are detaining them..

at the very least, the idiot with the camera should have that camera crammed up his arse..

now onto the the rest of the war...

The IKRK told the US authorities month ago!!! So this is definitly not a problem with bad apples its a big problem of ur sick government!

Eagler · « **Reply #46 on:** May 06, 2004, 12:17:59 PM »

watch ur buds get blown to bits, then play mr. niceguy to those who did it... yep - great way to fight a war..

capt. apathy · « **Reply #47 on:** May 06, 2004, 12:32:53 PM »

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watch ur buds get blown to bits, then play mr. niceguy to those who did it... yep - great way to fight a war..

so you think we should just allow this kinda crap to go on? that we are somehow tying their hands be requiring them to act like human beings?

I don't much give a damn what the rest of the world thinks but I am sorta curious what kind of behavior to expect from people when they get home if this sort of crap is allowed.

how would you like some guy who got his jollys torturing some prisoner to come home in his nice freshly pressed uniform and set up a date with your daughter?

one of the reasons we expect our men to continue to act appropriately even when faced with an enemy who doesn't restrain themselves in the same fashion is that one day we are going to expect these men (and women now too, I guess) to come home and live with the rest of us.

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #48 on:** May 06, 2004, 01:28:42 PM »

Rumsfeldt been fired yet?

capt. apathy · « **Reply #49 on:** May 06, 2004, 01:41:21 PM »

if they have proof that he had knowledge of this he should be more than fired, criminal charges would be apropriet.

but without the proof I'd hate for him to just be fired to prove to other countries that we are "doing something" about the situation.

doing something isn't enough, you have to do the right thing. if he didn't know then firing is wrong. and if he did it's not enough.

not that I'd miss seeing Rummy involved in our gov't. I don't like Bush muchm I think he's the worst president of my lifetime. but I think Rummy is just evil, you can see the glee on his face when he talks about war, some days you can almost see where they removed his horns.

Maniac · « **Reply #50 on:** May 06, 2004, 01:41:29 PM »

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Rumsfeldt been fired yet?

I dont think that he dares...

StabbyTheIcePic · « **Reply #51 on:** May 06, 2004, 01:49:11 PM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
watch ur buds get blown to bits, then play mr. niceguy to those who did it... yep - great way to fight a war..

Are you justifying their behavior? If the administration is too ****ing incompetant to stop their people from killing unarmed prisoners, then Bush needs to be dragged out of the Oval Office kicking and screaming like the spoiled crybaby **** he is and thrown in a cage for little children to mock.

We are just as bad as the Saddam's goons now, and we have people justifying the behavior, just like Saddam did.

SaburoS · « **Reply #52 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:00:41 PM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
watch ur buds get blown to bits, then play mr. niceguy to those who did it... yep - great way to fight a war..

Well, those few jailers just insured hardened Iraqi resistance. they won't be so quick to surrender. Chances are now those that would contemplate surrendering will fight to the death, taking more coalition forces with them. Those coalition prisoners taken from now on are probably not going to survive their "treatments" under the Iraqis.
The key to any war is not as much how you feel about your enemy, but how your enemy feels about you. If they think of you as an invader/occupier and only there to treat them as cattle, guess what? They aren't going to play by your rules. They aren't going to cooperate.
We're going to continue to win the battles via body count (if that really matters). Seems we're going to lose this war, unfortunetly.

Thrawn · « **Reply #53 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:06:05 PM »

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Originally posted by NUKE
When was that proven?

It's in the US Army's report on the incident.

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What about throwing people into wood chippers,cutting out tongues, chopping off limbs, sending body parts to family members in trash bags, raping children in front of the parents, etc..? I didn't see you protesting any of that news.

I didn't see anyone supporting it or trying to rationalise it either.

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Originally posted by capt. apathy
but my gut reaction is that, if this is true, I don't like it. what the hell is a military inteligence contractor? and why would we need to hire private companies to handle this work. is this just someone who we hire so we can distance ourselves from things that shouldn't be going on. should private companies be given authority to issue orders to our soldiers? my answer to that would have to be a big assed no.

Even more disturbing is that one of the two murders that the US Army is investigating was apparently commited by a "CIA contractor".

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
eally have to wonder if she (the reserve one star who was in charge of the prison) is not just attempting to redirect blame in a desperate attempt to CYA. I'm not saying that her excuses are totally implausable, just that it sounds real suspicious.

Ya know, I thought of that also. But that would mean that there is some kind of conspiracy between the General, her staff and the enlisted men directly involved in the abuses. I find that hard to believe. "I know lets make up a convoluted story that is easying disproven so we can torture some guys."...I don't buy it.

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Originally posted Eagler
looks like we may have some bad apples ... pls point out an army that doesn't

Actually it looks like a policy enacted by someone vis-a-vis the miliary intelligence contractors. And I think that that is the most important issue here, and one that is being mostly ignored by the press. These enlisted men and officers that have been charged and reprimanded are reponsible for thier crimes, but they are starting to look like scapegoats as well.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #54 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:07:43 PM »

good point SaburoS,

was it Will Rogers who said "when you give a person a lesson in meanness, don't be suprised when they learn it." ?

or something to that effect, it seems to apply here.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:07:59 PM »

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Originally posted by lada
Yes you are correct and i will give you classic example

before 1938
On czech lands close to german boarder

What part of the czech republic are you from? I have family in cesky tesin

StabbyTheIcePic · « **Reply #56 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:09:13 PM »

I can see rip's excuses now....

Iraq 2005
"People shouldn't condemn Americans, because Pinochet committed worse atrocities"

Iraq 2006
"People shouldn't condemn Americans, because Stalin committed worse atrocities"

Iraq 2008
"People shouldn't condemn Americans, because Pol Pot committed worse atrocities"

Iraq 2012
"People shouldn't condemn Americans, because Hitler committed worse atrocities"

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #57 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:13:25 PM »

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Originally posted by Duedel
The IKRK told the US authorities month ago!!! So this is definitly not a problem with bad apples its a big problem of ur sick government!

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posted in rubuttal
[GENEVA (May 6, 8:44 am ADT) - The international Red Cross said Thursday it repeatedly demanded that U.S. officials correct problems in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison before recent revelations about the abuse of Iraqi inmates by American soldiers.

Spokeswoman Nada Doumani said she could not say the problems included "specifically" the abuse allegations made in the media in recent days. The U.S. authorities did fix some problems quickly and took longer to address other complaints, said Doumani, speaking from Amman, Jordan.

She declined to say whether the ICRC reports were the basis for the U.S. investigation begun in January after an American soldier reported prisoner abuses, but she noted that the reported abuses occurred last year - at a time when the ICRC was visiting and reporting on shortcomings at the prison.

An American soldier reported abuses, starting an American investigation... What are the time stamps on the photos in question Duedel? As "U.S. authorities did fix some problems quickly and took longer to address other complaints," according to the Red Cross.

Seems like your conclusion may have been hastey or possibly just prejudiced. 'Bad apples' follows the facts a bit better in my view.

StabbyTheIcePic · « **Reply #58 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:18:01 PM »

So all of these federal agents who are going in and out of these prisons, are seen by eyewitnesses participating, encouraging, and complimenting the efficacy of this, they are guiltless. It's just a little discipline problem in the army?

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #59 on:** May 06, 2004, 02:38:47 PM »

People with knowledge of the "proceedings" who did nothing are accessories.

I don't know where you came up with "guiltless"