P-47D: "Damon's Demon"

[-ammo-]

A few things to note.  First, that is a nice looking Kweassa!  Cant wait to fly it!.

Bob Johnson did fly a P-47C, but only very shortly in mid 43.  He shot down all of his 28 kills in P-47D's. Namely his P-47D5, "lucky". The other AC he got alot of kills in was "Penrod and Sam". The P-47 units got D models in late 43, but a few C's did remain in service and were flown by some well known pilots.  Hub Zemke flew a C in combat for a while.

The paddle blade prop was brought into theatre in ealry 44.  They were installed on AC as they sat at the fields.  So, *most* D5's, D11's, D15's, etc.. were equiped with the new Hamilton prop, but only as  an upgrade.  The important thing to note is that almost all of the existing P-47D's with squadrons that received the prop upgrade had them installed.  It is probably true to say that the D22 was the first model that arrived in theatre with one of the two pabbleblade props already installed by the factory.  That wasnt the biggest benefit to the unit's receiving the D22, for all intensive purposes they already had the props.  FYI, the D22 was the last razorback P-47.  The D25 was the first bubbletop model.

[Kweassa]

Curious as to where you found the A code letter to go with the B8 of the 379th FS? On Rarey's site there is a cover done for a book that shows it as B8-S. I don't know if that's correct either.

 Thanks for asking me that!

 I couldn't find any other reference on it besides that the 379th used the code "B8", and the only other photo I found while surfing the net(forgot which site it was though..), was Keith Kitt's(same 379th) P-47N which was assigned with B8-A, so I just chose it for reference!

 You think it should be B8-S?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by -ammo-
A few things to note.  First, that is a nice looking Kweassa!  Cant wait to fly it!.

Bob Johnson did fly a P-47C, but only very shortly in mid 43.  He shot down all of his 28 kills in P-47D's. Namely his P-47D5, "lucky". The other AC he got alot of kills in was "Penrod and Sam". The P-47 units got D models in late 43, but a few C's did remain in service and were flown by some well known pilots.  Hub Zemke flew a C in combat for a while.

The paddle blade prop was brought into theatre in ealry 44.  They were installed on AC as they sat at the fields.  So, *most* D5's, D11's, D15's, etc.. were equiped with the new Hamilton prop, but only as  an upgrade.  The important thing to note is that almost all of the existing P-47D's with squadrons that received the prop upgrade had them installed.  It is probably true to say that the D22 was the first model that arrived in theatre with one of the two pabbleblade props already installed by the factory.  That wasnt the biggest benefit to the unit's receiving the D22, for all intensive purposes they already had the props.  FYI, the D22 was the last razorback P-47.  The D25 was the first bubbletop model.

Any specific timeframe on when the paddle blades started arriving -ammo-?  I know Bob Johnson mentions it in his book.  The photo evidence doesn't really start showing them until post D-Day when the Hamilton Standard props start appearing.  There was a Curtis Electric "paddle blade" too but once again this was with the D-22.  

There are certainly photos of D-22s with the 'toothpick" propellers of the earlier Jug variants as well.  And the D-Day Jug photos seem to show the 'toothpick' prop as well.

I'm guessing that while there may have been a few 'paddle' blades retrofitted before  D-Day that it was much more prevalant after the invasion.  And as Rarey went 63 missions without an abort, I'd suggest his Jug still had the toothpick.  I'd also suggest that the paddle blade props that did arrive early more then likely went to the 8th AF Jug drivers with the ground attack Jug pilots second in line

Added an image of an invasion striped 9th AF Jug.  The caption even mentions that it still had the 'toothpick' prop, not the paddle.

Dan/Slack

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Thanks for asking me that!

 I couldn't find any other reference on it besides that the 379th used the code "B8", and the only other photo I found while surfing the net(forgot which site it was though..), was Keith Kitt's(same 379th) P-47N which was assigned with B8-A, so I just chose it for reference!

 You think it should be B8-S?

I'd go with B8-S.  I'd consider adding the oversized star and bar to both underside wings too as they did for the ground attack role on many of the Jugs.

Decided to add a scan of a 9th AF Jug with full D-Day stripes and the larger star and bar under both wings.

And for what it's worth, the 379th at some point in the summer of 44 painted the 18 inch cowl ring yellow.  While it's not clear if this would have happened prior to Rarey's loss, it might add a bit of color as most groups had nose color by that time as shown in the scan.

Dan/Slack

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Any specific timeframe on when the paddle blades started arriving -ammo-?  I know Bob Johnson mentions it in his book.  The photo evidence doesn't really start showing them until post D-Day when the Hamilton Standard props start appearing.  There was a Curtis Electric "paddle blade" too but once again this was with the D-22.  

There are certainly photos of D-22s with the 'toothpick" propellers of the earlier Jug variants as well.  And the D-Day Jug photos seem to show the 'toothpick' prop as well.

I'm guessing that while there may have been a few 'paddle' blades retrofitted before  D-Day that it was much more prevalant after the invasion.  And as Rarey went 63 missions without an abort, I'd suggest his Jug still had the toothpick.  I'd also suggest that the paddle blade props that did arrive early more then likely went to the 8th AF Jug drivers with the ground attack Jug pilots second in line

Added an image of an invasion striped 9th AF Jug.  The caption even mentions that it still had the 'toothpick' prop, not the paddle.

Dan/Slack

I have probably read what you have.  I read Bob Johnson's book, Gabby's, Gerald Johnson's book, Mahurin's book, and Zemke's book.  I also have Bodie's too.

I think that a few significant squadrons received the new Hamilton in large number.  The 4th and 56 FG's for sure. B Johnson had one on his D-5!)  I am guessing that they had enough installed in Jan-Mar 44 to ensure that 3 full flights would be flying with paddle's.  Its really subjective, AFAIK there is no written documentation of how many and whom got them.  

I agree that the 9 AF were behind in line behind the 8 AF guys:). The 9th AF didn't exist until later on so they didn't get them until the Curtis was standard on the later D models.  Another reason not to install them on the 9 AF jugs was the real benefit of the paddleblade couldn't be enjoyed until they were flying in really thin air.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by -ammo-
I have probably read what you have.  I read Bob Johnson's book, Gabby's, Gerald Johnson's book, Mahurin's book, and Zemke's book.  I also have Bodie's too.

I think that a few significant squadrons received the new Hamilton in large number.  The 4th and 56 FG's for sure. B Johnson had one on his D-5!)  I am guessing that they had enough installed in Jan-Mar 44 to ensure that 3 full flights would be flying with paddle's.  Its really subjective, AFAIK there is no written documentation of how many and whom got them.  

I agree that the 9 AF were behind in line behind the 8 AF guys:). The 9th AF didn't exist until later on so they didn't get them until the Curtis was standard on the later D models.  Another reason not to install them on the 9 AF jugs was the real benefit of the paddleblade couldn't be enjoyed until they were flying in really thin air.

Actually, based on there being no comment anywhere that I've read by a 4th FG pilot referencing the paddles, I'd bet we're talking March-April for the first to start making it to the 56th.  By that time the 4th was on 51s.

Found a reference to the paddle blades in the 359th FG history.  There is mention of "Bill's Buzz Boys" the volunteer group made up of 4 pilots each from the 353rd, 359th, 361st and 355th FGs, lead by Glen Duncan that was put together to test methods for attacking groud targets.  The quote is "Most of the P47s flown by the Boys were equipped with paddle blade props that improved performance."  They flew their first mission on March 26th.

Again looking at the photographs of the 359th Jugs that were not a part of that special group, there aren't paddle blades yet, although they too transitioned to the 51 before D-Day

Dan/Slack

Good stuff to play detective on though

[Guppy35]

Ok -Ammo- I take it back.  I think you're right on the time frame.  If Martin Caiden and Robert Johnson are to be believed, the first mission for Johnson with the paddle blades was January 4, 1944.

Roger Freeman's, "The Mighty Eighth" mentions modifications to P47s starting at the end of December, one squadron at a time, that included the paddle blade props.  This was started with the older groups first, so I imagine that would be the 56th and 4th, although there is no mention of the change in any of the three 4th FG histories I have, and none of the photos show a paddle blade 4th Jug.

The 78th FG did good stuff with the Jug.  I'm wondering if they were next in line or the 353rd since Glen Duncan was with them?  The process must not have  been too quick considering all the photo evidence of the pre D-22 Jugs in the ETO with the earlier props at D-Day time.

The only other specific mention I can find of the paddle blades is in three different sources, all referencing "Bill's Buzz Boys" having their P47s mostly fitted with paddle bladed props in March of 44.

Ah well, it's been good fun hunting for it on a day off.  The Mrs. has been wondering what the heck I've been up to all night

Dan/Slack

[-ammo-]

Dan-

You are a much better man than me for research.  I rarely make comments stating dates that I am really sure of because I am WAYYY to lazy to go dig it up:).  I know tis there, but you know, don't remember exactly which book etc...

mate, see ya up.

[bozon]

thanks for the good info!

I keep holding my fingers crossed for a paddleblade razorback... the'll most probably stay like that for a long time.

Bozon

[Kweassa]

There it was, it was this(tweezes fingers) close to coming alive.

 Then, a freak power surge hits the neighborhood and fries my modem and TV, turns the power of from my PC. Luckily, my hard drive survived.. but from this experience I have learned the valuable lesson to never work on something for more than 5 minutes without saving your progress.

 ....


 @#@$(@@*$@($)$__%!!!!!!


 Now in 2 days I'm online again.. I think I'm suddenly turning philosophical.

 Anyhow, here's a progress report - due to the unfortunate accident, the heavy weathering's not there. Only light highlighting and basic weathering implemented currently.





ps) anybody have a full profile pic of USAAF pilot gear? The default textures are for Navy pilots, isn't it?

[Guppy35]

The Jug is looking good  You going to add the serial, 225518, on the tail in yellow?

As for a pilot profile.  This is from the Aces of the 9th & 15th AF book by Osprey.  Shows a 363rd FG pilot in typical fighter pilot gear.

Not sure if that is what you are looking for, but it's the best I could do.

Dan/Slack

[Kweassa]

Thank you Guppy, exactly what I've been looking for.

 One more question though... do you have any reference on what was written down where on the fuselage of the P-47s? Something like a decal sheet info perhaps.. I've been looking for such text info for a long time and could rarely encounter any one of the USAAF/USN planes, or even RAF for that matter. The only such info I've got is on 109s and 190s...

[TimRas]

Originally posted by Guppy35
If Martin Caiden and Robert Johnson are to be believed, the first mission for Johnson with the paddle blades was January 4, 1944.Dan/Slack

From Gabreski's book:
"The other change they introduced about this time was the paddle-blade propeller. We used them for the first time on the January 4 mission. I noticed a little more vibration with the paddles, but what an improvement in performance, especially in the climb !"

(The other change was the retrofitting water injection).

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Thank you Guppy, exactly what I've been looking for.

 One more question though... do you have any reference on what was written down where on the fuselage of the P-47s? Something like a decal sheet info perhaps.. I've been looking for such text info for a long time and could rarely encounter any one of the USAAF/USN planes, or even RAF for that matter. The only such info I've got is on 109s and 190s...

The picture below shows some writing but it's out of focus.  I'm at the work at the moment but I'll check my personal photo collection of aircraft and see if they have more detail.

I might be going down to Duxford this week and they have a couple of P47s there.  If I do go would you like photos of any writing on the aircraft?  These are bubble P47s btw, not razorback.

[Kweassa]

That would be most thankful.. except I probably won't be able to use it on the "DD".

 I'm tired with this one. The skinning was fun but bad happenings.. and a fatal mistake has drained my morale to the bottom

 I was tired, my concentration was slipping... I changed the PSD file for the wings to indexed colors, saved it as BMP. And then somehow, without thinking, I saved the PSD file in that mode, and closed the program.

 Well, with a single click the entire layers of panel lines, rivets, weathering and etc etc.. all blown away into the wind. All that's left is the final, finished set of BMPs... and I'm just tired..

 I'd love to have those photos as reference. Thank you Replicant. But I'll have to use it in the future when I do another P-47.


 Anyway, "Damon's Demon" of the 362nd FG, 379th FS, is now finished and will be submitted to HTC for use. It will be up at the Ah-skins.com shortly after, too. Thanks for the help, everyone.