Originally posted by Crumpp
Yeah I suppose your are all right.
It was just a big conspiracy theory against Lockheed and the P 38. The USAAF decision to not purse the P38 as an escort fighter was not motivated by wining the war in Europe. It's success was just swept under the rug and lesser fighters were adopted. The man will do anything to keep a good fighter down.
Grab a copy of "The Luftwaffe Fighter Force: A view from the Cockpit". It's the transcripts from the Allied interrogations of Luftwaffe fighter pilots after the war to validate the Allied Air Campaign. Check out the opinions of allied fighters section.
About the the P38 you will find:
"Luftwaffe pilots would always attack the P 38 over other USAAF escort fighters. It was a big target and not as manuverable as their other planes."
They did have some good things to say about it.
"The P 38 must have been good flying over water since it had two engines."
Lets check out how the P51B stacked up against the FW-190A3:
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Level Speed
The FW-190 is nearly 50 mph slower at all heights increasing to 70 mph above 28,000 feet.
Cimb
There is little to choose between the two in climb. The Mustang has a considerably better zoom climb at all heights due to its speed advantage.
Dive
The Mustang can always out dive the 190.
Turn
There is little to choose between the two aircraft with the Mustang having a slight advantage.
Rate of Roll
Not even a Mustang approaches the FW-190.
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The Mustang was a much better performer. Bottom Line.
Crumpp
The 8th AF had an agenda. It was unescorted daylight strategic bombing. Since they had no need (they thought) for long range escort fighters, they sent the P-38s they had, in early 1943, to North Africa and the Med. Only in mid to late 1943 did the 8th AF, forced to face the fact that unescorted daylight strategic bombing was an unsustainable failure, decide they needed long range escorts.
Unfortunately, their best and experienced units were all in North Africa and Club Med, flying P-38s, rather successfully. The P-47 did not have the range, the P-51 was not available. The 8th AF rushed two units to Europe, the 20th and the 55th. Both groups had lost many of their senior pilots nad their commanders to the replacement pool for other units. They did not even have enough planes to form the groups fully.
Despite being forced into operational status 90 days ahead of schedule, these two units reduced bomber losses by some 60+%, despite facing nearly 20:1 odds with zero combat experience. Caught by surprise, the Luftwaffe was forced to withdraw large numbers of 110s and 210s from interceptor duties, and replace them with frontline 109s and 190s from their best units. Still the bomber losses were dramatically reduced. The P-38 units, later joined by one P-51 unit, held their own against a vastly more experienced and numerous enemy. Still maintaining an overall positive kill to loss ratio.
The P-38 was eventually replaced in the 8th AF by the P-51, because there was a critical shortage of P-38s (there was only one plant that was NEVER allowed to even slow production) because the there was a shortage of P-38 trained and rated pilots, and because the P-51 presented fewer logistical problems from supply, to maintenance, to pilot training, and was about 1/2 the price of a P-38, and being produced around twice as fast.
It was very easy for the staff of the 8th AF, under withering criticism for incredible and unsustainable bomber losses, to blame the P-38, and the lack of the P-51, for their losses and poor performance. The truth was, they didn't WANT a long range escort fighter,they felt they didn't NEED a long range escort fighter, and when they were proven wrong, they needed a scapegoat or two for the military CYA mode.
You want FACTS from the Luftwaffe, read Steinhoff, not the apologist Bravo Sierra excuses
Steinhoff (yeah, the Luftwaffe ace who went on to run the NATO air forces) said that for the most part, the Luftwaffe pilots respected the P-38, because it was fast, climbed VERY well, and could easily be on your six before you knew what happened when you thought you had the advantage. They found it to be incredibly agile for a large fighter. Later, when the dive restrictions were raised, they respected it even more because they could not dive away from it.
The P-38L (yeah, the plane we have here) could roll faster than a P-51 at high speeds, had a greater rate of climb than the P-51, was faster at many altitudes, and had much better handling characteristics. Especially at low speeds with the fuel tanks full. It had a lower stall speed, easier stall recovery, was a more stable gun platform, and suffered no ill handling characteristics due to CG issues or torque.
For a great period of time, the Luftwaffe didn't even see anything but P-38 deep escort fighters. Until December 1943, the Mustang wasn't even THERE. Not to mention that until April/May 1944, the P-38 STILL outnumbered the P-51 in numbers deployed in the 8th AF. So of course the Luftwaffe attacked P-38s, or rather they fought P-38s, that was the fighter that was THERE.
By the way, if you think that the Allies always used the best equipment rather than what was more readily available, cheaper, and easier to manufacture and maintain, you should talk to Sherman tank (AKA Ronson, lights the first time everytime)crews, and a lot of sailors who sailed in whatever could be thrown together to float. Very often, Allied soldiers, sailors, and airmen were equipped with what was available and affordable, regardless of how well it was suited for the task at hand.
Oh, and if you think that the Luftwaffe was vastly superior to the Japanese air forces, and they (the Japanese) were only second rate at best, you should ask pilots who fought both of them. They'll surely tell you different.
