Author Topic: HTC Please Help Save Our Community  (Read 2515 times)

Offline Fariz

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« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2001, 06:02:00 PM »
I like the idea of squelch list, as I wrote many times. But it seems one thing here... Just imagine that the guy you squelched has changed... It can happen, and you will not have chance to know it because he will be in your squelch list. So how about setting time of squelch with steps 1-4 weeks?

And I am against the "bad guys" list. Some people will specially act bad to be high even in this list.

Fariz

Offline BBGunn

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« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2001, 06:32:00 PM »
How about this?  Everybody including me gets mad and writes down what pisses them off the most on a piece of paper and then we go out into the back yard and burn it up.  

Offline CptTrips

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« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2001, 06:53:00 PM »
>But it seems one thing here... Just imagine
>that the guy you squelched has changed...
>It can happen, and you will not have chance
>to know it because he will be in your
>squelch list.

Good Point.

A squelch timeout period would be one possible answer like you said.  However, I don't like the idea that the effort is placed back on the user to have to re-enter the offender everytime.  Someone I've had to squelch should not get back into my buffer unless I specifically decide to allow him back.

In the instance you cite above, I'd prefer a different approach.  

One day this guy checks his stats and realizes that 85% of the user community has him squelched.  He started realizing that no one was answering his calls for help because everyone has him squelched.  No one seems to reply when he tries to join in on missions and its like he isn't even there.  3 squads have turned him down for membership citing poor social skills.  He begins to re-evaluate his past behavior and realizes that he may have been acting like a real jerk lately.  He realizes that if he wants to be a part of the community again, and be able to join in then he must reasonable behave within the norms of the community.  

Maybe he should publicly apologize on the BBS for his past poor behavior in the arena, admit he was in the wrong and request that the community give him a second chance.  Those that feel like giving him a second chance can CHOSE to allow him back into their buffers.  Those that aren't convinced can pass for now and maybe watch his stats for a while.  If his squelch stats go down (people gave him a chance) then shoots right back up (back to old habbits) then you know he's full of crap and keep him squelched.

Once someone has behaved badly enough that I need to Perma-Squelch them, then the burden is on THEM to prove to me why I should give them a second chance, not the other way around.                    

Ofcourse, we'd still have the current squelch too that you type in manually at the buffer line. So if its a one time thing I can just put him in the temp squelch buffer and next time I log he'll be visible agian.  If its a repeating offender then I'll drop him in the perma-squelch file and he should stay in there until I am convinced of a reason I should take him out.  Temp-squelch, Perma-squelch.  Choice.  Choice is good.

Thats just my personal opinion.  


Regards,
Wab

[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Offline bloom25

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« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2001, 06:57:00 PM »
I too have noticed the increase in insults on the open channel.  I have never squelched anyone, or the open channel.  I try not to let it get to me, but the fact of the matter is that all of the whining, insults, and bad language does take something away from the game.    I can only imagine what a newbie thinks the first time he sees this...

When I'm online I don't say anything on the open channel (or try very hard not to) that I believe will hurt the game for anyone else.  If I type something on 1, it's either:
A. tech support answer or question.
B. <S> after a good fight.
C. Discussing the WWII history that often comes up in the buffer.

I was unfortunate enough to be online last night when this Gas fellow had his little tirade.  I'm sure most of us that were online just tried to ignore him, but the fact is that this kind of behavior will destroy the community if nothing is done.  I think that the learning curve is pretty steep for this game, which does tend to get some of the newer players irritated when they just can't instantly get kill after kill.  IMO there are few games with a steeper learning curve than this one.  This is a double-edged sword.  On one side you will have some people who just can't figure it out fast enough and will blow up on the open channel.  This causes veteran players to get angry and usually an open channel dispute is the result.  The other edge is that this game has the greatest potential for improvement.  It is always the most challenging games that become classics.  In AH there is so much to do that anyone can have fun if they put in the time to get good at it.

The best way to make the game better IMO is with good documentation and a strong community.  All the negative posts that have popped up recently would make a newbie think twice about putting the time in to get maximum enjoyment out of the game.

IMO a permanent squelch list is at best a "sweep it under the rug" solution.  It's kind of like the old saying: "If a tree falls in the woods without anybody around, does it make a sound?"  My answer is yes.  

I am not opposed to a permanent squelch list at all, but IMO something must be done to address the root causes of the problem rather than just pretending nothing is happening.  Sure, a PSL will increase the enjoyment of the game for a few people.  The problem is that those without a PSL created yet will still have to see what is said.  (This will be mainly newbies.)

I've been thinking hard about what could be done to improve AH and here are a few of the ideas I've came up with:

A.  Help documentation included with the game download.  Included should be a very basic FAQ detailing how to do things like keymapping, using the vehicles, taking off, basic key commands etc.  This will reduce the number of people complaining on the open channel, and therefore reduce the number of arguments online.

B.  Player written guides on how to fly a particular plane available online.  We tried this before and it seemed to work well.  Good posts about things like strategy should also be punted from time to time.  My thinking here is that if players see write ups by other players just like them and then see that player online, it will increase the community spirit.  It will also help lower the initial learning curve somewhat for the newer players interested in things like E fighting etc.

C.  Good forums like the O' Club and History forums.  I think that all of us who play AH are, for the most part, share common interests.  IMO if I met just about anyone here in person I would find them interested in the same things that I am.  Having forums to discuss WWII history and other common interests helps bond the community.  Later on if you end up fighting that person online you will be more likely to enjoy that fight rather than getting angry.

I think AH is in a period of heavy growth.  In time the community will improve if we take steps now to ensure that it does.  AH certainly has the potential to become the best online flight sim, but HTC alone can't do everything.  A PSL is at best a temporary solution to the problem that does nothing to combat the real underlying issues.  That said I still think it's a good idea that should be included in the game.

I guess I've rambled on long enough.  



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bloom25
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2001, 06:58:00 PM »
Hmm.... Good point SwampRat about people changin'....

I absolutely *hated* torque when he 1st showed up...

Now Torque, like Creamo, is one of my favorite guys in the game.

And no Torque - I don't got a crush on ya   .... Just usin' this as an example of how a perma-squelch list *does* come with some disadvantages.

Offline CptTrips

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« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2001, 07:08:00 PM »
>Sure, a PSL will increase the enjoyment of
>the game for a few people. The problem is
>that those without a PSL created yet will
>still have to see what is said. (This will
>be mainly newbies.)

Ha! Already got an answer for you.  

When you install AH now it comes with default config files for key mapping joystick config, etc.  The player can accept the defualt settings or go in and re-configure themselves.

PermaSquelch.cfg will come pre-populated with the top 10% of user Id's query'd from the Scores DB "amazinhunk" list according to the ranking at the time of the version release.  You know, the usual suspects.  


[This post was, at least, half in jest.      ]

Regards,
Wab
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Offline jihad

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« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2001, 07:29:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Torque:
LLBM is JIHAD or is JIHAD LLBM?

 Nope Torque, I'm a holy war - LLBM is a Large Loud Bowel Movement. <G>


Offline Lephturn

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« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2001, 07:43:00 PM »
I just wanted to point something out...

Folks mentioned Gas and his way over the top crapola the other night.  I know that info on his offensive language was sent to HTC and you won't find him online anymore.

HTC can and will take care of it if somebody is being extremely offensive.  Screenshot or film it and send the evidence to HTC and something will be done.

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Offline SKurj

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« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2001, 09:28:00 PM »
Lephturn..

Gas was back the very next morning....

If it takes HiTech a day or even 4 to implement a permasquelch list, its worth it IMO.  The community has never been so bad..

AKskurj

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« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2001, 09:50:00 PM »
I agree! Permanent Squelch List!

I disagree on the a-hole ranking though - that gives the losers the attention they are after anyway just in a different and probably just as pleasing to them form.

The vocal and obnoxious minority would garner a smaller and smaller audience and eventually they would only have their own little clique of friends to spout off to. Then the isolation would set in and hopefully they might see it is a lot better to be a community member than a community antagonist.

Permanent Squelch List! Si!

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« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2001, 10:06:00 PM »
i love it give um what they want of they will whine forever . ohh well really they will com up with another whine when they get the squelch but at least we wont have to listen to the antiwhine (TM).

really just to hot in the kitchen they made.
 each nuby is gona make the same discoverys and squeak about them even faster then they (THE appologists)  can run them off with pompas reactionary  drivil they blow 24/7.please by all means hand them the bucket of sand they will need to put their head in to ignore the other 98% of the community. its only decent  

Offline CptTrips

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« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2001, 10:23:00 PM »

Well, towd I was never good at decifering your pidgeon english, but if there was ever a poster child for the permanent squelch list, it'd be you.  

You'll be the first in my squelch list, and there you'll stay.

Regards,
Wab
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AKSeaWulfe

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« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2001, 10:24:00 PM »
A software driven filter can never replace human morality. Netiquette is all but non-existant amongst many(not all) newcomers to the net. "Back in the day..." when you had to pay by the hour to log into your ISP and compiled onto pay2play for your gaming service or the central server you played on there were far fewer outbursts and much less of the childish behaviour exhibited by a majority of people logging onto the internet now-a-days. You think I'm wrong? Build a time machine and go back 5 years, it would seem as if people were talking face to face and worried about upsetting the next fella in fear of getting a good ol' fashioned bellybutton whooping. It simply wasn't worth the flat rate coupled with 2$/hr to piss someone off, no you wanted to spend that money having fun. Now ISPs cost between 10$ to 30$ a month and the freebie accounts are the foundation for the immature behaviour. ~15$ all the smack you can talk sure does sound intruiging to someone who wouldn't dare say a thing to a human face to face for fear of getting the $h*t beat out of him or even death, instead he releases his rage anonymously over the internet.

Isn't technology great, it lessens physical human interaction and promotes anonymity which allows people to behave like "damn dirty apes"((c) Austin Powers the Spy That Shagged Me).

I remember the "golden years" of the internet and online gaming, those are the memories that stay with me. Those were the days when people respected the other person's opinion and interacted as if they were adults, regardless of age.

If we come to rely on software to replace morals and netiquette, what then? Where do we go from there? I don't know, only time will tell.

No Wab, I don't think your idea is a bad one, but I felt like ranting. I'm sorry for hijacking your thread buddy.

Ah well, Me and my thoughts are insignificant and I am only one person. I just remember my days in WB when a vulgarity filter wasn't required. Really what we are searching for is not a filter for the absent minded who can't keep their fingers from spewing the drivel that is brewing in their minds... no, we need a set of standards for online play. They don't abide by them, no more account. When I first joined WB(CK at the time) I read all the documents I could find, and one of them was written up by someone very popular there(his name escapes me at the moment) but they were a set of guidelines on how to behave inside the game and on the message boards. I tried to abide by them at all times, and I was 13 years old at the time. Surely we could find the decency within ourselves to respect one another and think before we type?


Time for a personal anecdote, if you don't care then skip this. Back before I started playing CK I had a 486SX/33 incapable of running CK because it required a math co-processors which were in the DX models of the 486. Well I would read the messages posted in the CK area of CIS (that's CompuServe to those who weren't around at the time) and I read something about inflight radar and some other things which I didn't comprehend since I hadn't seen the game interface at the time. Well I made some remarks on how things like that shouldn't be available because they are too "arcadish" or something to that effect. I was quickly ripped a new one by a few guys and tagert. A week or so later after some "heated" debates I had "seen the light" and ended up becoming good friends with tagert. He told me the necessary information to upgrade my processor so I could play CK and a month or two later I was up and running playing the game. I learned a few things from tagert, most importantly how to act like an adult while I was still very young (remember.. 13 years old). I am very appreciative to him for him taking his time online helping me getting up and running(remember 2$/hr for just surfing the net!!), and for the lessons he gave me. Anyway, since then I have tried to behave as he showed me to and be able to "set an example" as he did for me. A lot of the times it doesn't work out that way, but if I make a mistake I definitely try to right my wrongs. And that's something a software driven filter will never be capable of doing.
One more thing, when tagert and I became online buddies it was at a very traumatic point in my life. If you care to know, you can email me and I'll tell ya but I don't feel a BBS is a place to air your real life story. ;-)

Sorry about my tirade but I just had to get this off my chest.
-SW

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2001, 10:30:00 PM »
If the squelch list is permanent, what happens when the handle is reused by another player new to the game. There are more than a couple players that left and came back as someone else as the original handle was taken by a new person. Of course some just changed handles to avoid the notoriety they already earned.

I just squelch the individual or if necessary then channel one.

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funked

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« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2001, 10:37:00 PM »
Maverick the squelch would not be truly permanent.  

All I want is that when I issue a command like ".squelch ReTaRd", ReTaRd is squelched not just for that session, but for all sessions until I issue the ".unsquelch ReTaRd" command.