Author Topic: Handling the Merge  (Read 1596 times)

Offline Murdr

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2004, 04:15:09 PM »
Following up TracerX comments.  How you merge should depend on what your plan is after the merge.  The merge tracerx described is the perfect tool for setting up your first turn.

 Say you plan on doing an immelman after the merge.  If you initially dive under the merge, then (timing is critical) pull up right before the merge, you have just executed a pre-turn, and should have an advantage if the enemy is also starting a loop.  Plus in that situation, if you were lower going into the merge, your radius point is also lower, which puts you in a better position at the top.

  If you plan on doing a chandell, you would offset your entrance to the merge farther left or right.  If you plan on just blowing on past, some of the other 'avoid the ho' merges would be appropriate.  

By heading into the merge one direction, and switching to another heading right before the merge, you are acomplishing 2 things.  1 making yourself a hard target and  2 putting yourself in position to start manuvering first.

Just some points you may want to consider while trying to figure what will work best for you.

Offline Hyrax81st

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2004, 05:09:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B
How to merge in AH--

First things first, alt is life.  Climb to at least 25k, the more the better.


LOL... as soon as I read the first line, I knew it was going to be an entertaining post. You're right, a lot of pilots fly so that if they don't have a sure kill, they will surely leave ...

First, I try to be in a situation where I have the opportunity to get some separation from my opponent before the merge. If I am too close to do that, the best method I have used for flying past on merge without getting HO'd is to barrel roll in a moderately tight spiral through and past the opponent.

I don't know what people define as an HO (other than pointed directly at each other), but I have given and received VERY good near-HO snapshots on merges that I cannot complain about.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2004, 05:14:50 PM by Hyrax81st »

Offline J_A_B

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2004, 06:04:03 PM »
"I don't know what people define as an HO"


I think of a HO as the guy who never makes any real attempt to merge and simply blares straight in at you with guns blazing.  

The guys who do the off-angle type frontal shots aren't really doing HO because they make an effort to keep AWAY from the other guy's guns; the HO pilot completely ignores the actions of his opponent.

At least that's how I view it.


J_A_B

Offline bandit752

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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2004, 11:41:17 AM »
Thank you soda for the reply,,,
I been finding your advice to be very helpful..I went in the training area and Just praticed on keeping a eye on the target!!
And that is not easy,,I find that the stick controls for the viewing has to be just right for you to follow the target!!!
I know there must be a dozen or so profiles for the x45 stick and was wondering who here would be willing to share there profiles!!
Thanks Again,,,

Offline Soda

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2004, 02:22:20 PM »
Glad I could help bandit.  I think there were a couple of good x45 threads not too long ago in this forum, you might want to run a BBS search to see what that gets you.  One, in particular, was posted that had some stick configs for the x45.  A quick search yielded this:

x45 settings

I don't use an x45 stick but I think they are fairly common/popular in AH.

A good way to build "natural" use of views is to practice on easy targets initially, then build up to tracking hard stuff.  Go offline and make mock attacks on ground structures, viewing them while reversing to make another pass.  This should be easy because the structures don't move, only you do, all you have to worry about is running into the ground (thus make quick looks forward, then immediately back to view the target).  Then I often suggest you go up and practice on drones.  Make mock attacks from all angles and use the views to track them.  This is medium-easy, they are moving, but at least they move in predictable paths.  Then, you can do to the TA and just follow someone around a bit (ask if they mind).

A new player in AH typically has trouble tracking more than 1-2 other aircraft at a time, experienced players can track probably 3-5, the really good veterans can probably handle up to 10.  You don't want to get target fixiated on any one person, you need to have a overall awareness of what is happening around you, like when you drive a car and check the mirrors for cars around you.  It's a bit of mental file-keeping, you note where each person is, which ones may be immediate threats, which ones are longer-term threats, and what they relative energy states are.  Usually I end up classifying them in that manner, people who are further from you, and below you, are less likely to be immediate threats while someone above you and close are more likely to cause problems.  Then I make sure I update my info on the more immediate threats more often so I know what they are doing and can react accordingly.

One other thing, incase you didn't know, is you can set your head positions custom for each aircraft.  While using the view you wish to set (for example, hold the 2 key on the numberpad for rear-view), use the arrows and Page Up/Dn keys to move your head around the cockpit until you get the view that you feel best allows you to see what is happening in any one direction.  Once you get something you like, while stil holding that view, press F10 to save it.  Now, any time you return to that view you will have the custom one you saved.  You need to do this once in each aircraft as each is different, but overall the custom views can be vastly better than the defaults.

Offline pellik

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2004, 12:36:30 PM »
TracerX and Murdr have it right, but I usually simplify things when teaching a low seperation merge like this. If you want to avoid the HO follow these easy steps:
1) Begin a ~45 degree nose down dive at about d3000. If your opponent doesn't dive with you (HO dweebs just keep you in their gunsite, which isn't 'diving with you' because you get lower faster) begin to level out before he gets in firing distance (about d1000).
2) Pull up into him such that you pass right behind him. To avoid the HO dweeb you'll need to practice this timing a little. Ideally you should pull pretty hard and not be able to get your nose on him. Now you're in the middle of a perfectly timed immel.
3) Take advantage of the fact that you're only a ~90 degree turn off his high 6. Short of some fairly complex evasives or a lot of running, you've got a strong winning position. Remember that while you may be slightly slower then he is, you'll be able to turn inside of him.

-pellik

Offline Sikboy

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2004, 02:40:58 PM »
Heh, the Verticle lead turn is second only to the Rope-a-dope in satisfying kills. I can't believe people still fall for it, but I guess as long as there are new players, there will always be someone to lead-turn.

In a furball, I'm usually facing a head-on situation while I'm actively engaging another bandit. I usually just us a combination zero-g dive/skid to get past the enemy. It's USUALLY enough to spoil his aim, but leaves me with energy coming out of the merge, so that I can continue what I was doing before the HO pass. The key here is to always be going fast enough to get past them, even if they're in an n1k2. The only time I get that slow (intentionally I mean) is once I've pulled a guy away from the furball and I'm reasonably sure we'll have a 1v1 fight.

When that happens, he's got to be a fast fighter like an La-7, Tiffy, or 190 and they are always behind me, so it makes HO avoidence somewhat problematic lol.

But you know... sometimes I just plain forget that people will HO you, and they get me almost everytime, and I think "man, I should have seen that coming"

-Sik
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Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Seagoon

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2004, 05:37:32 PM »
So... Anyone got a vid showing correct merge tactics?

Thanks,

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline MaddogJoe

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2004, 07:49:21 PM »
the problem is there is no "set move" that will give ya the great merge.

Pelliks move is great for co-alt/ co-e enemy. The enemy will give the room for this one as ALOT of guys go for the HO.I got a chance to work on this one with him for an hour or so one night, and its one of my favs....tho I'm not as good with it as him. :)

But ok so now you have 3K alt on a bogie...co-e, you won't use the same merge as now you'll be giving away your alt to get down to him, and with the extra speed you have from that big a dive, you'll have a hard time turning inside him on the immel. So in this situation maybe you start a slow spril climb to either entice the enemy to foolishly climb to you, or just to slide around to his 4-7 oclock area to make a run at him.

So the thing is, there are a bunch of merges. The trick is to learn ALL of them, and then use the right one for the situation that you are in. And one other thing to think about... a vertical merge that works real good on an FM2, isn't likely to work as well on a 109 or spit. Just one more reason to be pulling your hair out in front of your computer :D

Offline Ack-Ack

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2004, 01:00:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
you taking it in here now monkey dweeb



Taking what in here?


ack-ack
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Offline Murdr

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2004, 04:19:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Taking what in here?


ack-ack

His rainbow flag :geesh: :D

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2004, 04:49:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
His rainbow flag :geesh: :D





People may over exagerate my alts but I don't think anyone could call me timid.



ack-ack
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Offline pellik

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2004, 08:12:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MaddogJoe

Pelliks move is great for co-alt/ co-e enemy. The enemy will give the room for this one as ALOT of guys go for the HO.I got a chance to work on this one with him for an hour or so one night, and its one of my favs....tho I'm not as good with it as him. :)

But ok so now you have 3K alt on a bogie...co-e, you won't use the same merge as now you'll be giving away your alt to get down to him, and with the extra speed you have from that big a dive, you'll have a hard time turning inside him on the immel.
 


Actually what I love about this merge is that you can use it with an excess of energy. I'll put my plane in a shallow dive a little early to try and hide exactly how much energy I'm packing, then dive into an obvious vertical seperation merge as I get closer.  If my opponent doesn't dive with me I know he's an idiot and I can afford to be overly aggressive to get the kill fast. If he does dive with me I just pull into a mid to low G immel and watch him do the same trying for the snapshot. If he extends out I'll just zoom up and level out to rebuild energy while he runs. If he doesn't level out I go into a double immel. Then maybe a tripple. If he gets greedy I can watch him start to stall out. Then I've just performed a rope maneuver. If he breaks off early to avoid getting roped look at the new situation. I'm sitting there with a notch or two of flaps ready to hammerhead straight down on an enemy maybe D700 directly below me who is probably not comfortable with how slow he's going. I can retract my flaps and have a suitable energy advantage, or I can cut throttle and saddle up. The fight is pretty much mine. This is especially true in american fighters which prefer nose down turning.

(This is where I start explaining this with you as the pilot so it doesn't sound like I'm trying to brag)

Now let's say your the one comming in to the fight low. Start your dive nice and early. If he doesn't dive with you you'll probably get a good shot stalling out directly underneath him. If he goes for the HO you'll just force him to invert and maybe split-s to track for the shot (this is my favorite quick kill merge on n00bs. Try to time your pulling up to pass just below him and once your going almost vertical roll 180 and drop in on his 6. He will probably try to vert. scissors with you, but the energy states are in your favor after his poorly thought out split-s. This is particularly devastating against la7s). If he dives with you just watch him to see what he does as you pass. If he pulls hard into an immel he is fighting for position and you should extend. If you are confident about energy states you can take this merge with a hard immel or pitch back and do pretty well in the right plane match up, but I don't want to start getting into merged fight tactics here. If he pulls up slowly just do the same, and you'll have wasted much less E as you didn't dive so fast. This 'lets both wuss out' version is very common against 190s and other dweeb BnZ fighters. The idea here is to fly a great big figure 8 pattern. You extend out in a shallow climb, he immels and starts to dive on you. You split-s at about d3500 and use the split-s like your initial seperation dive. If he is really cautious you'll have to start in with overshoot merges to get the kill.

There are situations where this isn't a suitable merge, but when is something a pilot should figure out for himself.

-pellik
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 08:16:23 PM by pellik »

Offline Morpheus

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2004, 07:18:07 PM »
Quote
lets say your in a F6F.....Shane the girlman is in his Lala.....say your 15k....merge.....or make em dive....which do you choose.


Merge and go to town.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Handling the Merge
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2004, 01:03:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
So... Anyone got a vid showing correct merge tactics?

Thanks,

- SEAGOON



P-38 film

This film shows to good merges in the beginning.  One merge is with a relatively coalt and co-E F4F and the other merge is against a higher Spitfire Mk IX that tried to bounce me.



ack-ack
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