My take on female leadership

[OIO]

I agree with hortlund in only one thing: In groups of women, things, in my experience, do always tend to end up bogged down in one massive chat-o-thon where they try to verbally convince every individual of the group on their point of view or ideas.... factions form up, endless debate until finally the factions have absorbed each other and only 2 big groups are left.. more endless chat chat chat and things start to get ugly and uglier until finally the head of one group caves in.

In comparison, whenever a team of men (or who in the great majority are men) are given a task,  a leader is decided on almost instantly and the whole group follows lead..for better or worse.


The results however, are usually the same for both groups of men and women (though i'll admit women groups usually do a more detailed job.. but men groups usually finish a lot faster and achieving the main goal).

As far as PERSONAL leadership, i'd say its equal. Ive met both men and women who are excellent leaders and some who are horrible leaders.

Personally, i prefer to work with a GOOD woman leader than with a GOOD man leader... maybe its just me and working in big corporations as a lowly employee but of the 5 bosses ive had in the past years only the 2 woman bosses have treated me like a person instead of a number. And im talking about bosses whom you never talk to or even see unless you really screw up or have a serious issue to bring up with high management.

[Nilsen]

lol retrovertigo2.......where did you come from

[Staga]

Originally posted by storch
I don't step into the kitchen alot and am a firm believer in the adage that "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy".  Yessir she has her way.  But she has it sweetly, with feminine charm.

Yeppers...
" But she has it sweetly, with feminine charm"
I'm still thinking how the hell do they do it. Just few words with certain tone and all you can say is "Yes dear"....

[Hortlund]

He cannot mean me, my name isnt Björn...

Anyway, new member, first post in this thread to insult me...just another troll.

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by Staga
Yep. I wonder what kind of marriage will he have or is having

likely a good one.  the ones where people go in with this fairy tail idea of man and wife being equal partners with equal say in all issues are, for the most part, doomed.

the ones where only 1 person holds these beliefs are also doomed, unless that one can be educated before it's over.

women should know their place.  men should also know their place.  and from what I've seen the second one is actually the more common problem these days.  

you see a lot of men who have a very good idea of what their wife should be doing, but seem to put little effort into fulfilling their own responsibilities.


a few people in this thread have asked what 'a womens place' means.  next month my wife and I will have been married 20 years, and the people I know who have been married as long or longer have a similar relationship.  heres what it means and how it works for us.

I'm responsible for the overall welfare of the family.  she has areas that I don't interfere with except in extreme cases.  she knows I trust her and leave those areas to her.  so if I do step in to an area that is traditionally hers she knows it must be important and I have final say.  If I interfere in an area that is hers and screw it up I will live to regret it.

I figure out where the money will come from.
I set the total amount of the household budget, but she handles the details of how much goes where and when.

I am responsible for all conflicts and disputes involving people outside our family.
my wife generally handles all conflicts within the family, if anyone doesn't respect her handling of these issues, I handle that.

we don't argue in public or in front of the children.  If I make a decision or statement she doesn't agree with, she will defend it as if she did until we have time to discus it in private.  what ever we decide at that time will be the opinion presented by both of us.  the revers is also true, I back up any decisions she makes 100% until we have a chance to discus it.  If we absolutely can not agree, my decision stands.

on the surface it may seem very one sided or heavy handed, and many people take this view and warp it into something that is.  

what you don't see and what can't really be expressed in writing (at least not by me) is the absolute love and respect I have for my wife (stronger even than my love for my children).  with this as a foundation and the above explanation as the structure it makes for a very strong relationship.  since we both put each others welfare above our own, and our family as a whole above that, there is actually very little conflict.

  yes I do have final say on every issue, but her having to submit to my decision that she is completely opposed to doesn't come up often (maybe a dozen times in the last 20 years), and in each case so far, she has trusted me to make these decisions in spite of her own judgment and our family has profited from them.  it's true that I could have been wrong, and she had the better idea, but I'm the one responsible for the outcome and sometimes someone just needs to make a call, when that time comes it's my call to make.

[BUG_EAF322]

seems all woman in sweden are really blond ??

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Retrovertigo2
Joho, det heter du visst!

//Retro

Nope, sorry. You must have me confused with someone else.

[Hortlund]

Jaha...

[storch]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
likely a good one.  the ones where people go in with this fairy tail idea of man and wife being equal partners with equal say in all issues are, for the most part, doomed.

the ones where only 1 person holds these beliefs are also doomed, unless that one can be educated before it's over.

women should know their place.  men should also know their place.  and from what I've seen the second one is actually the more common problem these days.  

you see a lot of men who have a very good idea of what their wife should be doing, but seem to put little effort into fulfilling their own responsibilities.


a few people in this thread have asked what 'a womens place' means.  next month my wife and I will have been married 20 years, and the people I know who have been married as long or longer have a similar relationship.  heres what it means and how it works for us.

I'm responsible for the overall welfare of the family.  she has areas that I don't interfere with except in extreme cases.  she knows I trust her and leave those areas to her.  so if I do step in to an area that is traditionally hers she knows it must be important and I have final say.  If I interfere in an area that is hers and screw it up I will live to regret it.

I figure out where the money will come from.
I set the total amount of the household budget, but she handles the details of how much goes where and when.

I am responsible for all conflicts and disputes involving people outside our family.
my wife generally handles all conflicts within the family, if anyone doesn't respect her handling of these issues, I handle that.

we don't argue in public or in front of the children.  If I make a decision or statement she doesn't agree with, she will defend it as if she did until we have time to discus it in private.  what ever we decide at that time will be the opinion presented by both of us.  the revers is also true, I back up any decisions she makes 100% until we have a chance to discus it.  If we absolutely can not agree, my decision stands.

on the surface it may seem very one sided or heavy handed, and many people take this view and warp it into something that is.  

what you don't see and what can't really be expressed in writing (at least not by me) is the absolute love and respect I have for my wife (stronger even than my love for my children).  with this as a foundation and the above explanation as the structure it makes for a very strong relationship.  since we both put each others welfare above our own, and our family as a whole above that, there is actually very little conflict.

  yes I do have final say on every issue, but her having to submit to my decision that she is completely opposed to doesn't come up often (maybe a dozen times in the last 20 years), and in each case so far, she has trusted me to make these decisions in spite of her own judgment and our family has profited from them.  it's true that I could have been wrong, and she had the better idea, but I'm the one responsible for the outcome and sometimes someone just needs to make a call, when that time comes it's my call to make.

Very well said,  sounds like our household.

[Nilsen]

omg.....2 hortlunds??? I thought one was plenty

[ravells]

Horlund said:

It is a generalization naturally, but I have yet to meet someone to beat the generalization.

Well, perhaps you just havn't met the right woman, Hort?

In the workplace, I've come across many women (in law, which I think is your field) who excel many men. It's a profession which really has very little to do with gender. Sure, some of them have a chip on their shoulders and are 'ball breakers' but others are great team players. I find it's more to do with personality than gender.

Maybe it's your preconceptions which is the problem?

Ravs

Storch:

I'm married to a woman who earns twice as much as me (and I'm on the higher end of the national scale),  she's out in Athens kicking arse to make sure that the Olympics delivers (a very difficult job, believe me). If people have a problem with her in the workplace, well tough s**t, she gets results.

Together we are fine, she insists on doing all the 'woman's' stuff around the house, like the cooking etc, when she's at home - unless she's too tired, in which case, I'll cook, clean or whatever. It's pretty fluid, and it works for us.

Storch's relationship, in which he requires a submissive woman (slave?) may work for him, but I don't think it's the panacea of modern relationships as he prescribes. Different people have different equations. I've had girlfriends in the past who expected me to do all the thinking and providing and frankly, I found it boring...but that's just me.

Ravs

[storch]

Originally posted by ravells
Horlund said:

It is a generalization naturally, but I have yet to meet someone to beat the generalization.

Well, perhaps you just havn't met the right woman, Hort?

In the workplace, I've come across many women (in law, which I think is your field) who excel many men. It's a profession which really has very little to do with gender. Sure, some of them have a chip on their shoulders and are 'ball breakers' but others are great team players. I find it's more to do with personality than gender.

Maybe it's your preconceptions which is the problem?

Ravs

Storch:

I'm married to a woman who earns twice as much as me (and I'm on the higher end of the national scale),  she's out in Athens kicking arse to make sure that the Olympics delivers (a very difficult job, believe me). If people have a problem with her in the workplace, well tough s**t, she gets results.

Together we are fine, she insists on doing all the 'woman's' stuff around the house, like the cooking etc, when she's at home - unless she's too tired, in which case, I'll cook, clean or whatever. It's pretty fluid, and it works for us.

Storch's relationship, in which he requires a submissive woman (slave?) may work for him, but I don't think it's the panacea of modern relationships as he prescribes. Different people have different equations. I've had girlfriends in the past who expected me to do all the thinking and providing and frankly, I found it boring...but that's just me.

Ravs

Wow!!! a slave??? submission works both ways. actually Capt. apathy described our relationship almost perfectly when he described his own.  No one way street ever works in anything let alone a long term relationship.  actually we serve each other and both of us our children.  And the family together serves the community in many ways.  The concept shouldn't be too difficult to grasp even for someone from self centered europe.

[Sandman]

Hmmm... I think leaders are born not made. I expect that the ratio between leaders and non-leaders in women is probably the same as men.

That said... Women in groups are something else. Regardless of their education/training level, they seem to cat-fight. Or at least, that's what my wife says. She would much rather work with a group of men than a group of women. It's much more relaxed with men.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Sandman
Hmmm... I think leaders are born not made.

Thats not really true, leadership can be learned.   Here is a very good book all of you should read to improve your leadership skills.  It's written by the dean of my Business School and is one of the best leadership books around. This work is based on decades of real life leadership research by the co-authors.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0787968331/qid=1089602821/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-2376998-3490510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Halo]

I'm telling Mom!