God this game gets repetitive.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by beet1e
Urchin - fair comment.


I always said the gameplay would be the same old, same old with different clothes perhaps. I secretly hoped I'd be wrong.  The CT was like a mini MA last time I was there, with SIX ki61s gangbanging my F6F. Whenever I show in the CT, I would always check the numbers and choose the side with the lowest in order to create balance. But it seems some people just want a shooting gallery.


What would be nice is to fly realistic missions with realistic goals,

 Had hoped that my experiances with the CT was the exeption and not the norm and more the result of bad timing then anything but now I see you saying the same thing. Though for me it was my Ki getting ganged by  the F6's.

Only way your going to get realistic missions with realistic goals is with the implementation  of Strat targets which with the exeption of barracks and radar has now been rendered all but pointless to hit so as to wetnurse the furball and horde crowds.
Maybe when and if TOD ever gets here there will be something for the rest of us.

[jaxxo]

You are correct Dredlock....it's pretty much the same except its easier to drag a con somewhere and have a 1 on 1. If ya get bounced at least its only by 4 or 5 enemies.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Had hoped that my experiances with the CT was the exeption and not the norm and more the result of bad timing then anything but now I see you saying the same thing. Though for me it was my Ki getting ganged by  the F6's.

Only way your going to get realistic missions with realistic goals is with the implementation  of Strat targets which with the exeption of barracks and radar has now been rendered all but pointless to hit so as to wetnurse the furball and horde crowds.
Maybe when and if TOD ever gets here there will be something for the rest of us.

A big part of having fun in the CT or MA is being able to read the map... look at the dar, bases under attack, overall numbers and figure out where a good fight will be by the time you up and get there.  This is a very overlooked "skill" but is key to having fun.

Sometimes I'll just watch the map for 5 minutes before I launch; this sounds like a waste of time but it sure beats flying around for 15 minutes looking for a fight that is over or finding yourself alone under 10 cons.

eskimo

[Polaris]

Originally posted by LYNX
I was there. Agree 100 %  (was Stevex) Did exactly as u have done.

As to the rolling plane set as quoted way above.  They do that in WB but 3/4 of the pilots never bother flying the first 3 days of a new TOD.  They don't like early planes, carbs, 303's and 109's with next to no ammo. Or just haveing a JU88 as a hvy bomber.  Folk would return to the arena when the plane set upgraded to 1941.

I used to enjoy it though but I was in a minority.  Hell, I fly hurri 1's now.  Landed 2 kills just today.

STEVE!!   Sir!  I do believe I flew with you in the League of Gentlemen.  -plrs- was my game ID.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by beet1e
A good point is made in AKFF's post. It just goes to show that most players don't seek WW2 immersion. They just want best the plane for the job. "Crutchplane" was the term someone once used. I think it was OIO.

I still don't understand why these guys fly a WW2 sim, when there are games like Quake and Doom out there.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of WW2 immersion in AH. From what I've read of the tactical manuals used to train pilots in the US, most "realistic" behavior is ridiculed in AH.

US pilots were taught to always fight from an advantage, and to never give it up unless necessary. They were taught to never let their speed down, using the hated BnZ set of tactics. Overly aggressive lone wolves were feared by their squadmates, because of the danger they posed to themselves or others. Planes flying without wingmen were viewed as more dangerous to the team than no thaving them their at all - they were a liability, not an asset.

The AH ethic of one man taking on the swarm, or engaging at a disadvantage like a heroic knight, is NOT historical immersion -- it's idealized fantasy. In a way, AH has Quake elements, like symbolic objectives, renewable lives and melee fighting -- but with a more historical movement and weapons model. It's not, however, a simulation of waht it was like to fight in the air during WW2.

(I am prepared for the firestorm)

Oh, and back to my original point -- historical immersion would require that newbie pilots would be adopted for their first flights by squad leader caliber flyers who would make sure they kept their noses as clean as possible. Many squadrons had little lists of rules for ground attack, or whatever, to minimize the high losses amoung new pilots. Sounds like some historical precedents worth adopting to me.

[xBarrelx]

The AH ethic of one man taking on the swarm, or engaging at a disadvantage like a heroic knight, is NOT historical immersion -- it's idealized fantasy.

[/B]

Well you're somewhat correct. It was greatly viewed down upon at fighting with a disadvantage. But when you're escorting buffs to a target, what are you gonna do if the enemy out numbers you and has altitude over you? Run away and leave the buffs unprotected? People fought agaisnt numbers and overcame disadvantages. This was not always so and often people got jumped by being greatly out numbered. But the fact is that sometimes you don't have a choice but to fight.

Yes, I know AH is nothing like RL in WWII. We're not talking about escort duties and such but then be careful how you word things.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Overlag
because it would make something different? its a shame to see so many planes go unused..........

So what if they get used a lot?  No reason to perk them.



ack-ack

[mechanic]

Originally posted by GODO
Dont look for the kills, look for the deaths. One plane can die only once per sortie, but can kill more than one target:

109G10 4897 deaths.
109G6 1621 deaths.
109G2 771 deaths.
109F4 2022 deaths.
109E 370 deaths.
Total 109s: 9681 deaths.

190A5 2515 deaths.
190A8 3695 deaths.
190F8 724 deaths.
190D9 5464 deaths.
Total 190s: 12398 deaths.

Spit I 781 deaths.
Spit IX 13007 deaths.
Spit XIV 217 deaths
SpitV 11703 deaths.
Seafire 7364 deaths.
total spits: 33072 deaths.

Typhoon 6382 deaths.

P51D 18050 deaths.
P51B 986 deaths.
Total P51s: 19036 deaths.

P38L 15564 deaths.

N1K2J 14234 deaths.

La7 15750 deaths.
La5  2093 deaths.
Total Las: 17843 deaths.

P47D25 868 deaths.
P47D40 4429 deaths.
P47D11 585 deaths.
Total P47: 5882 deaths.

The only reason so many spits have died is because spit pilots either:

A: cant run away (like pony or 190/109, la7)
B: dont want to run away, wants to fight to the death.

Alot of people seem to hate the spitfires, but surely the LW pilots in the real war hated them too? deal with it or play a different game.

I only fly Spit mkV  never the mk9 or that POS mk14, i can never run away, i can never do anything but fight till i die or run out of fuel/ammo. I fly with a squad of dedicated spit pilots and none of us fly the mk9/14

Admitedly some new guys may fly spits just because they dont know how to fly a more complex plane. This is not true for our squad, we all know our ACM and our SA is exceptional, we fly spits because we love the plane, in AH and out of it. its as simple as that.

look at the  Army of muppets, they fly P-38 almost exclusively, but they are not dweebs! they fly the lightning because they love it and know it well.

look at the JBs, they fly LW planes mostly and they kick arse in them, they turn fight our squads spits in true historic fashion and they take the game to the level that you whiners are missing out on because you see each Icon as the same fight.

"oh god! another spit, here we go again"

what you should be thinking is:

"my, my, this spit might be a better pilot than the last, maybe i shouldnt just use the same tactics over and over, and then when they kill me i will realise that they flew well, and wernt dweebs."

as opposed to:

"here we go, another newbie spit going to die....dives in....hey!...whats this? he is reversing on me! my god, hes now shooting me! ...this cant be true......im dead.....****.......he only killed me cos he was in that damn dweeb ride!"

NO. he killed you because you got sloppy and generalised the plane he chose to fly.

if the person who killed you in his spit is a dweeb in a dweeb ride then that makes you a Grade A chump for letting a 'dweeb' in a 'dweeb ride' kill you

ok   rant over!

batfink

PS: Urchin, are you a lawer? or do you just love being a jackarse?

[RedTop]

LOL...Hiya Bat....CHeck the Squad forums....you now have your own squad forum to post in...CHECK IT OUTTT

Ill post there some stuff fo ya:D

[Glasses]

Yeah am with Urchinput in a RPPGS(Rolling Role Perk Player game set). And Put in some NPC Spitfire witj  s[ecial items or the dreaded ghost plane of the net lag that drops rare items and you can then trade them to buy a special uber supercharger for your rig and then go to the quest of Lost whines in which you get the most   valuable item of them all that you can use in the struggle  give um a 100 experience points for each kills so they level up faster and put more fiends in the game yeah uh huh  yeah  yup yup yup yup.

[AKWarp]

I just fly whatever I think is going to net me the most kills for that sortie under the given circumstance to stave off the enemy or to gain advantage if we are trying to take a field.

If one of our bases are being hit by mostly high-speed, high flying types, I go with someting similar.  I like the spits and nikis and all, but they have hard time catching ponies and 190's.

If the furball is low and furious, I'll usually go with a spit.  La-7 I use sometimes if I think I need to chase stuff down.  It varies.  I don't always apply any logic to what I fly.

I don't care about my score because I can't compete with those who have/use their vulch accounts.  I'm not good enough to be in the top ten anyway even if the "score cheaters" weren't around.

My primary goal in the game is to win the war.  I like coordinated efforts to take fields and I like strategic approaches to how we accomplish that.  I prefer to avoid huge furballs and more than anyhting, I dislike skewed team numbers and gang banging.  I like when the numbers are fairly balanced and the fighting is relatively spread out.  To me that makes things more fun, but I also realize that isn't so for everyone in the game.

I also like gv battles a lot, especially in the new version.  Unfortunately, the gv code is in need of some serious updating/changing.

[hogenbor]

Originally posted by beet1e


A good point is made in AKFF's post. It just goes to show that most players don't seek WW2 immersion. They just want best the plane for the job.

In a way, yes. If I was part of 'the crowd' and had a little more time to play I would love to fly historic missions with matched planesets in a squad. I am one of the very few people too that loves the idea of a rolling planeset...

But I never progressed beyond the occasional 'lone wolf' MA flyer. Quite good at killing clueless people and surviving, but I need speed to get me out of trouble against a really good pilot. That's why I fly the P-51 most often. It's the best plane for the job! To my defense, I usually choose the 'B'. To lots of people my style of flying would be terminally boring but I just hate to get caught low & slow and losing SA in a big furball. I always want to have the initiative and always want to survive. That's my take on 'realism'. As I know my limitations as a virtual pilot I stick to that. In the beginning I was happy when I got a few kills in an FM-2 and managed to land them. But this got old. Now I just go out and try to kill people without getting killed myself.

[bj229r]

2 possible solutions to the endless la7/spit9/p51/Nikif......

1. DWEEB plane factory! Id bet yad even get Laz in a 17 eggin them things now and again.....

2. Mebbe a AH 'rolling plane set night...once a week, mebbe in midweek so as not to intrude too much at first...then see how feedback goes

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by bj229r
2 possible solutions to the endless la7/spit9/p51/Nikif......

1. DWEEB plane factory! Id bet yad even get Laz in a 17 eggin them things now and again.....

2. Mebbe a AH 'rolling plane set night...once a week, mebbe in midweek so as not to intrude too much at first...then see how feedback goes

I always thought spitfire factories in AW were a great idea. Having destroyable factories for the Big 4 would give the buff guys a way to pee in the fighter jock's cornflakes, a good idea now that porking fuel is not effective. I imagine there'd be twice as many buff missions to the Big 4 facs than to HQs. Have the factories incrementally destoyable from light damage to totally destroyed to deprive that country of that plane type for 15 minutes to 2 hours. This would add a whole new dimension to strategic objectives. This would pick-up in the plane-set balance issue where the perk/enemy-rating system falls short.


Zazen

[TBolt A-10]

Originally posted by beet1e


Quite why people clamour for new planes to be added to the plane set baffles me. It's STILL going to be a lala-ponyfest - unless the new plane is even more uber, stronger, has more powerful guns etc.

Beetle,
The rest of your post sounds like your heart is already set against AH2 no matter what changes.  And, that's okay.  But, you're right about the fact that a new plane will not prevent  every geek from sticking with the fastest, strongest aircraft.

If HT won't perk the Uber planes, he ought to AT LEAST give us the opportunity to knock the damn things out of production for 1 hour.  

SYSTEM: La-7 factory destroyed!
SYSTEM: N1k1 factory destroyed!
SYSTEM: P-51 factory destroyed!