Author Topic: Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel  (Read 766 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2004, 05:40:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Don't mind Rip, he's just a liar.  But hey at least he's consistant about it.  :rolleyes:

:confused:

Offline stiehl

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2004, 06:34:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Don't mind Rip, he's just a liar.  But hey at least he's consistant about it.  :rolleyes:


Serious accusation.  Twists the facts? yes.
liar????

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2004, 09:53:21 PM »
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Originally posted by rpm371
No, no, no. You don't understand. The world will come to an end if Kerry is not elected. We must twist every bit of information into misinformation and scare people like our glorious leader so they will only vote Democtraic, Viet Cong Wing of.

:rolleyes:

Offline Martlet

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2004, 09:55:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Don't mind Rip, he's just a liar.  But hey at least he's consistant about it.  :rolleyes:


What did Rip lie about?

Offline Kieran

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2004, 10:06:14 PM »
I don't know if it was a lie, but that wasn't a very good interpretation of the quote. Of course, Kerry wasn't very clear as usual, but I think it's premature to say he meant nuclear fuel.

Offline rpm

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2004, 11:16:20 PM »
Lie? No.

Out of context? Yes.

Ethical? No.

NeoCon? Yes.

And a thank you to Groin for beautifully illustrating my point.
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: Re: Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2004, 11:16:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Horn

Fuel for creating electricity is different than that for weapons.
Vote the issues indeed.

h


Horn,

Are you aware that nuclear fuel, even that which you quoted is EXTREMELY radioactive.  Even more so after it is "spent".  So... if according to your illustrious presidential hopefull's plan, "we" give the Iranians "safe nuclear fuel" that does not allow for fissile material of weapons grade to be manufactured they will be satisfied?  

I disagree, of all the Islamic states to give this too, Iran represents the greatest threat.... I know, you are saying they can not make weapons out of it.... WRONG....

Imagine this:

Iran receives fissile grade material for their "non-breeder" reactor and they use this fuel while honestly producing energy... time to refuel comes... in three or so years, and they refuel... Iran now posesses "spent" fissile material that is HIGHLY radioactive... this same "waste" is prepared for long term storage... "Waste" disappears... reappears three months later in a Seagoing container on a ship in New York Harbor... as the container is lifted to max height on the gantry, the 8000 pounds of Centax laced with the "Waste" exlodes... the prevailing winds carry the "Waste" for miles down wind... the explosion site is a waste land... 100's die outright, 10's of 1000's more live lingering deaths owing to exposure to high levels of cadmium radiation... most of the south east NYC shipyards become unihabitable for scores of years to come...

Hmm... nuclear anything for Iran?  Ahh... NO!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2004, 09:02:04 AM by Bodhi »
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Offline Bodhi

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2004, 09:02:57 AM »
no snappy comeback?
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Offline Pyton

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2004, 09:31:52 AM »
Quote

Are you aware that nuclear fuel, even that which you quoted is EXTREMELY radioactive. Even more so after it is "spent". So... if according to your illustrious presidential hopefull's plan, "we" give the Iranians "safe nuclear fuel" that does not allow for fissile material of weapons grade to be manufactured they will be satisfied?


Fact check: nuclear fuel is about as radioactive as your average rock before burned in nuclear reactor (and "burning" in this context is not same as everyday use of the word).

Quote

Iran receives fissile grade material for their "non-breeder" reactor and they use this fuel while honestly producing energy... time to refuel comes... in three or so years, and they refuel... Iran now posesses "spent" fissile material that is HIGHLY radioactive... this same "waste" is prepared for long term storage...


Why go all this way when there are other easier ways to to get material for dirty bombs. Namely radiological source in use in hospitals and many industrial facilities. They also have several additional advantages when used in dirty bombs compared to spent nuclear fuel:

-No residual heat. Spent nuclear fuel emits heat for about hundred years after taken out of reactor - it is one of the reasons why it is stored in water pools. For twenty years it is impossible to hide spent fuel in containers. There would have to be either cooling system that is impossible not to notice or the whole container would melt down in transit.

-Easier handling and processing.

-Better spreading characteris. Equal amount of radiological source in dirty bomb would spread much better than spent fuel.


Quote

the prevailing winds carry the "Waste" for miles down wind... the explosion site is a waste land... 100's die outright, 10's of 1000's more live lingering deaths owing to exposure to high levels of cadmium radiation... most of the south east NYC shipyards become unihabitable for scores of years to come...


I recommend looking at some real infromation on the effects of dirty bombs. You have to remember that all of the radioactivity spread by dirty bomb is concentrated in single point before the explosion. Also usable amount of shielding material is very limited both because need to avoid detection and because the shielding material prevents efficent dispersal by the bomb. Thus the activity of the material used is bomb is severely limited due to need to keep the handlers alive and well at least long enough to deliver the bomb and avoid detection. When this limited amount of material is spread over large area it effects are diluted in direct propotion to the area it is spread over. In fact the source is much more dangerous to general public before the explosion than after it.

Almost all of scenarios for dirty bomb result in no additional immediate deaths compared to conventional bomb of the same size and number of long term cancer deads that is about 1/1000-1/10000 of natural rate (less than variation in natural cancer rate in fact).

Quote

Hmm... nuclear anything for Iran? Ahh... NO!


Well, Iran has the needed mineral uranium and techonology to construct refining facilities so it can manufacture the nuclear fuel it needs if it decides to go forward with refining. However if all of its nuclear fuel is supplied from outside it does not need the refining facilities that can be used to manufacture bomb material. Making bomb material from reactor fuel also requires the same refining facilities.

Edit: Fixed quotes

Offline Bodhi

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2004, 09:45:16 AM »
Pyton,

I have read extensively on that exact scenario... and they metioned all of what you are saying, especially the fact that the spent fuel from the reactor was very difficult to handle, but of far more value to a dirty bomb owing to it's higher levels of radiaction and the lack of loss of potency when spread over a wide area.  The biggest issues were the delivery and the deception involved in the delivery...  I personally think it would be possible for just such a thing to work.  A 40' foot Seatainer provides ALOT of room to do ALOT of things with it...

but hey, have fun saying it is "impossible" because it is harder...
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Offline Pyton

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2004, 12:52:58 PM »
To get any advantage over radiological sources the amount of material would need to be at least several kilograms. If the rest of the container is filled with steel, lead or concrete it might be possible to get the container unnoticed somewhere. Of course that kind of container is way overweight and it is quite impossible to blow up in any sensible way.

Then there is the heat generation. To cool down that much spent fuel without any other heat sink than air you would need heat exchanger of the size of a whole container.

Of course doing and using a dirty bomb from spent fuel is not impossible but it is so hard that it is not worth it. The troubles making it all work are on par with making a full-fledged nuclear bomb. And with nuclear bomb there is no trouble with radiation before explosion nor with extra heat. Thus nuclear bomb - unlike dirty bomb - is relatively easy to smuggle to target.

Offline Gixer

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2004, 02:17:24 PM »
Has Bush come out with any plan yet for Iran other then to bomb it?

By the way love the way the recent terror alert came just at the right time with the Democrats launch. LOL


...-Gixer

Offline Ripsnort

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2004, 02:21:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Gixer
By the way love the way the recent terror alert came just at the right time with the Democrats launch. LOL


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http://www.blackhelicopters.com

Offline Gixer

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Kerry's answer to Iran: Give them nuclear fuel
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2004, 07:20:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
http://www.blackhelicopters.com



That link didn't work. Not sure if I'm all that fussed on black helicopters anyway. Most of my PnC time is in a very dark blue H500 which looks alot better imho then the black BK117 that we have. Or pretty much any other H500 in the country, must be the high skids and racing stripes that do it.

Though the BK117 got a bit bent by some lawyer learning to fly so not sure when we'll see that one again.

I also use to fly another H500 which was a kind of worn dark red and white. Which wasn't a great colour but who cares about colour when your doing deer recovery in the bush, right?

Blackhelicopters, your point is?



...-Gixer

Offline Gixer

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Re: say it don't spray it
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2004, 07:39:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
anyone else see skerry so fired up today he was spitting all over his microphone??

LOL -  too funny

Landslide Bush!!!





Actually what I found hilarious was your choice of quote. Which I assume is an attempt at a strong stance defending Bush's reasoning and aggressive  attack on Iraq.  

Though I'm sure you'd agree not one that his admin would use for the simple reason it's from a Nazi and one of Hitler's favourite generals. Maybe there's something in that or am I reading into it to much? LOL

Here, maybe you could use this one atleast it's from one of the good guys.

"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events."

Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)




...-Gixer