My advice on what joystick/gear to use and what not

[JFalk]

Just wanted to pass along some info to you guys regarding joysticks if any of you are having trouble aimming.

My first stick I was using for about a week was a MS force feedback stick.  I was all over the place with this stick, it was loose in the center and it seemed like the nose of my plane was bouncing some.  I tried every setting on the stick scaling I could adjust, fine tuning the dampening and deadbands.  I did improve it some, but the control was less then satisfactory here in AH, aimming was still a b-tch.

My next stick I tried was my older ( by a month) MS precision pro stick, it was not as loose as the MS ffb stick but I still could not get great control and feel with it, no matter how much adjusting I did. I really think any stick with the twisty/rudder in the handle is a problem, it has a tendency to spike when you roll, and it wants to return to center on you, causing that "dont move the controls so fast" when you are applying rudder in the opposite direction.
This stick was a pain as well.

On the advice of some of the veteran pilots here, who I noticed seem to get those high kill ratios, I asked them what they use, most of them use a CH stick with some form of pedals, like Simped from Germany or again the CH pedals.  I took their advice and bought the CH combatstick USB and CH Pro Pedals USB.  I set them up, went into the main arena, had a small amount of trouble with the pedals, but HiTech was there, and he told me what to do to get them recognised in the joystick settings.  He also  said he uses the CH Combatstick USB and CH Pro Pedals USB setup along with Pryo and Natedog.  If that isnt an endorsement I dont know what is   , well I have the CH gear setup and it works beautifully, I cant say enough good things about this setup, no spiking, no nose bounce anymore, smooth control, no more messages "dont move the controls so fast" and my aimming is much much better now.  I highly recommend this setup to anyone who is having problems with aimming in the game or somewhat twitchy controls, hope this helps.

btw my ms sticks work great in other games, in fact I love my MS ffb stick in Mech Warrior 3, just not here.

[Mox]

Good post.

I've been fighting my config on my MS FF Pro since I started AH. I was waiting on the CH F16 Fighterstick USB to come out but it seems it's going to be a long time.

Does anyone know if the regular (game port version) CH F16 Combatstick will work with the new USB CH Pro Pedals?  I would assume so...

Sounds like I need to join the crowd and get the CH setup!

Mox
The Wrecking Crew

[mx22]

Thrustmaster joysticks/throttles/pedals are very good. My current setup is TM F22 Pro, Suncom Split throttle and CH Pedals. Never had any problem with either one of them. F22 and CH Pedals are on their 3rd year of use, I had to change Suncom throttle not so long ago, but I dont know if it simply burned or broke down due to me kicking it on the floor lol.

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 03-14-2000).]

[-duma-]

Used to have a Suncom F-15E Talon, loved it to bits. Literally. Never got a replacement because I was too cheap, brought this horrible CH Combatstick (I know there are many CH likers around but after buying their horrible plastic CH Throttle, which disintegrated when the PS2 port plug-though failed to take the immense weight of the keyboard's PS2 plug). I can't stand this thing - it twangs back into the centre, has no feel whatsoever and completely uneven tension. I wouldn't bother with the original Combatstick, I'm not sure if the USB one is an improvement. Oh, the original combatstick also has a disgustingly bad throttle wheel which squeaks.

For pedals I use the Thrustmaster RCS pedals. I'm not sure if they're made any more - I think Thrustmaster folded? - but they're nice, solidly built. The pot. is going though, and I have to recalibrate it manually (swivelling the pot until I get the maximum possible range when centred). For 3 years old though, they're great. If you ever run into these huge pedals and don't mind that they're non USB, get them, they're fantastic, heavy, and mostly metal  

I'd say watch out for the Suncom F-15E Talon USB stick later on this year. Combined with the amazing USB split throttle (Used one but never had the cash to buy one - plus, drivers are being developed to link 2 of them up to fly 4-engined planes - got to love USB) and a decent pair of rudder pedals, they're a dream for P-38 pilots and C-47 drivers (Engine-assisted emergency stops when avoiding runway-spawning spitdweebs   ). I just love Suncom stuff and can't say enough about them - they're very solidly built, high quality and just look right .


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Duma
XO The Red Dragons
 http://www.reddragons.de

[This message has been edited by -duma- (edited 03-14-2000).]

[-towd_]

i have the new saitek x36f usb and love it not a jump in 3 weeks all is cool but the software for mode buttons seems not to work but i havent spent 5 minutes tryin

[funked]

Excellent choices John, exactly what I would have advised.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-14-2000).]

[Kirin]

Well I am one of the few (guessing) MS SW FF users who are pleased with it. I really got used to the twisty-thing-rudder and since "anti-stick-stirring" code isn't that harsh anymore I haven't got the "don't move your stick so rapidly" message ever since.
While using my stick I got used to the "nose bounce" and it doesn't hurt my aiming (well, I am not a sharpshooter - but I am sure it's not the stick which to blame). Infact I can't imagine using pedals for aiming as I use my stick. I've flown some time with the CH Pro pedals (they don't work with the MS SW FF) and don't miss them at all. I know that the "twisty-thing" is not realistic but it kinda suits me... having that small wheel for throttle suits me also - so I have the other hand free to access the keyboard. Always wanted to get a F16 Combatstick after what I read in reviews but they were hard to get around Switzerland. So if I had to recommend a stick now it would be the MS SW PP (no FF - cause it's really just a gimmick)

just my 2 Rappen

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~Kirin~

JG2 "Richthofen"

[-lynx-]

I use full CH setup - ForceFX stick (Combatstick with ForceFX), Pro throttle and Pro Pedals.

Never had any problems with it apart from occasional non-recognition of the throttle by the system (older chips have hick-ups with late mobos).

The stick feels fantastic - very solid, comfortable and stable. I never calibrate it as it keeps calibration like it's in-built...

Throttle gives incredibly easy programmability of the whole setup for just about anything you can think of - TM programming requires a degree in nuclear physics to work it compare to CH .

Pedals is the weakest part of the setup - they are way too "light" and give no feedback. But they are very compact and have "proper" sliding movements. I wish I could find something better and easier to service - cleaning the pot is a major pain in the back when it comes to putting the pedals back together...

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

[Saintaw]

Never had any problems with CH products, untill today  
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum5/HTML/000246.html


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Saw/Saintaw
KNIGHT'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
 
JG2 "Richthofen"
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."

[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-15-2000).]

[Jekyll]

MS Force Feedback stick here coupled with the Simped Digital pedals.

Have had the occasional problem with pedal centering, but it seems to have been fixed with the current version of AH.

No nose bounce, beautiful rudder control, smooth as silk.

What more could you ask for?

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'

[hblair]

MS force feedback here too, waiting on the "force feedack"  

[eskimo]

I agree with lynx, and now also use CH.
(F-16 fighterstick, Pro throttle and Pro Pedals.)

I used Thrustmaster (F-16 FLCS + WCS [tried 2 of each]) for a year.  I spent more time trying to program the stupid buttons in DOS than I would typically spend on a graduate level course, and never got it to work.  I also spent $80.00 in phone bills talking to TM techs (they were no help).  TM has nice, stiff springs; their only good feature in my opinion.  TM did not work for me.

I then tried Saitech X-36 stick and throttle (also went through 2 sets).  I loved the millions of buttons, and you can use a shift button to make 2 functions for each button or hat.  I loved the ergonomics, the best that I have played with yet.  The programming was in windows and was doable.  
The software, however, caused 3 different kinds of lock-ups (on 2 different comps):  A temporary keyboard lock-up, a harder to fix more severe keyboard lock-up, and a system lock-up that required hitting the big button on the front of the computer.  It was very frustrating.  The sticks also quickly developed (2-3 months) a large deadspot in the center, as the plastic bushings wore out.  I had to build shims for these bushings.  Spiking was also terrible.  Full right aileron spikes for several minutes were not rare.  Do not buy Saitech!

CH is good all around (except for the weak springs).  

I honestly do not think that there is a great joystick manufacturer out there, however.  
We need a product that has TM's stiff springs, Saitechs ergonomics and buttons, an intuitive programming program (Suncom,... anyone?), and a reliability/durability factor way beyond what any of us have yet seen.

eskimo

[Westy]

"We need a product that has TM's stiff springs"

 I was told once that if you slip No 14 O-rings around the posts inside the joystick it stiffens up the CH sticks very nicely.
 I have the post I saw from about a year or two ago and I bought the O-rings to try it out but it's always on the 'list' of minor things that gets bumped for actul online time  
 
 -Westy

[CRASH]

     I've been using the ms sidewinder pro fer 6 years.  The rudder being in the handle made gunnery a little more difficult in AH so I decided to finally get a more realistic set up.  I just installed the new chpro usb pedals.  Tough to get used after all that time w/ the rudder in the handle, but I prefer the realism.  I want to start flying again and I need to get used to taxiing the plane with the rudder and brakes again  
     After about 8 or 10 hours of play (first time back in weeks ) the pedals started to flutter and spike at the start of any input.  I went out to windows game controllers and sure enough they were spiking and wouldnt take a calibration.  I rebooted and it seemed to help a little.  I unplugged the pedals and replugged them in and that helped a little more but still not like new.  The next day they seemed fine again.  Chpro said it might be the potientmeter and offered to take it back.  I'm gonna wait and see if the problem comes back.  The warranty's good fer 3 years.
    I'm planning on getting the f-16 flightstick usb when it comes out. I want the 8 way hat switch as opposed to the 4 way on the throttle and f16 combat stick.  Now, my question here is since I only have 2 usb ports how am I gonna be able to hook up 3 usb devices?  I'm assuming that the stick and throttle will have a usb pass through of some sort allowing me to hook the throttle and jstick together. Is this a valid assumption?  

CRASH

[eskimo]

CRASH
I have not used the USB, but this is how the PC stuff hooks-up:

Stick only:  Joystick gameplug to game card.  Detachable keyboard cord from stick to keyboard port.  2 wires leave the joystick to the computer.
 
Stick and throttle:  Joystick gameplug to throttle.  Throttle's gameplug to game card.  Remove detachable keyboard cord.   Throttle's keboard plug to keyboard port.  Only 1 wire leaves the throttle, then y's into 2, to the computer.  None leave the joystick to the computer.
 
Stick, throttle, and rudders:  Joystick gameplug to throttle.  Throttle's gameplug to rudder's gameplug.  Rudders's gameplug to game card.  Remove detachable keyboard cord.   Throttle's keboard plug to keyboard port.  Only 1 wire leaves the throttle, then y's into 2, to the computer.  None leave the joystick to the computer.
 
Why can't the joystick manufactuers just say it like that!

eskimo