Author Topic: More Gun control??? (Read 5607 times)

Toad · « **Reply #240 on:** August 19, 2004, 08:49:51 AM »

C'mon Curv.... Laz does have a point there. Bermuda by its island nature IS a different situation.

The total population is about 65,000. You've got high population density but a very small population.

lazs2 · « **Reply #241 on:** August 19, 2004, 08:51:39 AM »

No... the p[oint is that you do need to be well armed but that you are just too ignorant to know it (not stupid, ignorant). I hope the point is never proven to you. you have made a wise choice tho as to wher to live to hide from these harsh realities. Only Disneyland would have been a better choice.

lazs

TPIguy · « **Reply #242 on:** August 19, 2004, 08:51:49 AM »

Curval, I think you totally missed the point of that guy's essay. Also, I think you're reading something into it thats not there.

Curval · « **Reply #243 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:06:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by TPIguy
Curval, I think you totally missed the point of that guy's essay. Also, I think you're reading something into it thats not there.

LOL...actually I think the opposite. I think you are reading it as something to back up why guns are so great and useful in the US. But, it is so full of rhetoric that it is laughable and you guys swallow it up like good little fishies.

I mean the use of the idea of slavery is really funny. Funny because the only reason slavery dragged on as an institution after Great Britain declared it an outlaw and unethical practice and actually tried to destroy it was because the demand for SLAVES...real slaves, in the US.

Anyway...I'm done here. The insults have begun and I obviously should not have an opinion.

Curval OUT.

lazs2 · « **Reply #244 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:07:14 AM »

I think most people of other countries with strict gun bans know in their heart they are being duped and are lashing out at free people. It is the fox's "sour grapes" thing. Many are simply friegtened by guns and are trying to justify the destruction of fellow subjects rights for their own selfish reasons. Many have simply bought into the propoganda and belive anything their government tells em.

lazs

beet1e · « **Reply #245 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:02:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I think most people of other countries with strict gun bans know in their heart they are being duped and are lashing out at free people. It is the fox's "sour grapes" thing.

I think most people of other countries with strict gun bans never think about it and don't give a toss.

Jackal said

Quote

The members of the U.S. military , in all branchs, are U.S. citizens. They are not like Hitler`s puppets. Most are intelligent and as you said VERY well trained. In the scenario described do you think they would just jump in and fight against the citizens of their own country and turn their back on the very things that they have been taught to cherish all their life because the powers that be said so? I think not. I believe they would instead fight for what they believe in and have been trained to protect.

I agree, but it's not me to whom you should be addressing this, but the folks who think they need a gun just in case the government flips its lid. It's an almost unthinkable scenario in the 21st century, and I cannot imagine US military forces annihilating the civilian population, for all the reasons you said. But your argument further weakens the position of those who cite gun ownership as a safeguard against a government that has "lost it", as they could surely seek protection from the military forces. But the scenario is so hypothetical that it's almost impossible to comment on it.

Mr. Toad - the above paragraph also answers your point.

Toad · « **Reply #246 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:05:38 AM »

Minutemen, Beet.

We are the military. The military is us. Band of Brothers, Citizen Soldiers, old Chap.

And I'm sure you don't give a toss. Just like nomadic desert tribesmen don't give a toss about flyrods. Perfectly understandable.

beet1e · « **Reply #247 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:40:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Minutemen, Beet.

We are the military. The military is us. Band of Brothers, Citizen Soldiers, old Chap.

And I'm sure you don't give a toss. Just like nomadic desert tribesmen don't give a toss about flyrods. Perfectly understandable.

Minutemen? Not just Small Men? Sounds like the American equivalent of Dad's Army.

Toad · « **Reply #248 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:45:34 AM »

Yeah, Minutemen. The name goes way, way back.

The ruling government at the time first met them at places like Lexington and Concord. And that ruling government ending up surrendering to them at Yorktown while the "World Turned Upside Down".

beet1e · « **Reply #249 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:12:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
And I'm sure you don't give a toss. Just like nomadic desert tribesmen don't give a toss about flyrods. Perfectly understandable.

Does the fact that nomadic desert tribesmen do not own/do not need flyrods mean that they have "less freedom" than people who do?

Toad · « **Reply #250 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:31:48 AM »

Nope.

I should have adjusted the analogy.

Maybe "Nomadic tribesmen living by a desert trophy trout stream who's class, economic and governmental system never allowed the "lesser folk" an unhindered opportunity to fish, reserving it only for those of "the blood" and wealth and thus never allowed a culture of fishing to take hold in the general populace and later banned all flyrods which the people didn't miss since they didn't have a culture of fishing for the last 200 years but of course the general populace didn't give a toss by then because they never really knew or enjoyed fishing anyway."

Cya Beet!

demaw1 · « **Reply #251 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:24:22 PM »

Curval....dont need to be armed...

You are so right curval, you do not need to be armed, and the freedom you have is nice, no you dont have to pay taxes and I think that is great.

I will tell you why you are able to enjoy all this. Because we pay taxes to protect you.Because you live under the wing of America.Without us, how long do you think it would take castro to enrich cuba with your country. If America was anything like russia,germany,italy,france or so many other countries past and present, how long do you think it would take us to make your country our footstool. Go ahead enjoy your freedoms , keep believing that somehow your freedoms are magic , and it is your 9 iron that makes it so.

beet1e · « **Reply #252 on:** August 20, 2004, 03:06:06 AM »

Well Toad, now I'm confused. I thought I had the answer - simple ownership of a flyrod represented "more freedom" than that enjoyed by people living in desert conditions where people don't need them.

I wonder how the eskimos feel about owning a trepan device to cut holes in the ice. Are they aware of the fact that they have more freedom than anyone else in the world, because they can own such a device, whose purpose is to allow them to make holes in the ice so they can go fishing? If they had internet access, they would probably post on this board to say how much freedom they have - because they have (and need) such a tool, whereas you and I do not, and don't give a toss about it anyway...

...after all, that's the argument now being used here about guns. American citizens are allowed ownership of certain weapons which the rest of the world may not have, and about which many of us couldn't give a fork. And the whole justification is that America has a strong game hunting tradition, just as the eskimos have a long held fishing tradition.

wrag · « **Reply #253 on:** August 20, 2004, 06:43:49 AM »

Actually it's possible that it's not really about guns.

From another way of viewing this, it could be about fear.

Guns were all taken away in Bermuda because people feared a repeat of the govenor thing?

Guns were taken away in England because people feared a repeat of that Scottland thing? (hmmm is scotland or scottland correct???)

Here the fear thing has been tried, but not doing quite so well.

Also here the fear thing is possibly 2 or 3 fold.

1) For a time people here feared guns, some still do.

2) It has always been, kinda intended from the start, that our rulers have a healthy respect for us and our guns. (maybe not fear us but think about how we might react to some of their plans for us before the try em)

3) Fear that we will lose our guns and be defensless.

Anyways, fear is something almost everyone understands.

Like Laz, I too lived a less then stellar life prior to settling down and having a family. Some of the people I knew then would worry me now.

I've been shot at here and in Asia. Had a shotgun pointed at me by a drunk. Threatened with a bumper jack. A fast moving chain laid across my head. Was at a friends house right after a drive by his son apparently got started somehow. And while it has almost grown out, my right ear still has a scar and a gap in the cartlige where someone tried to bite it off. Hate puttin a phone on it still. Human bites don't heal well

I understand fear. And in every case I was not looking for trouble! It just seemed to find me. Quite goin to bars because of it.

Living in Bermuda do these things happen?

Have you ever faced someone trying to kill or maim you?

Watched as a really big guy got stabbed twice in the stomach bullying a little guy in a bar?

Sat with a friend while her son went through emergency surgery from being stabbed 6 times in the chest? Word was he didn't even know he was stabbed until some friends told him. Thought he was gonna fight some other highschool kid. The kid popped him in the chest several times real fast and he laugh thinkin the guy couldn't hit. He said the guy looked at him in shock and ran away.

There is more but the point is from where I sit ..... hmmmmm

A 90 pound female is equal to a 230 pound rapist if she is armed and willing to use it. Further if the rapist knows she will use it he will probably leave her alone or die.

If someone is thinking of doing something bad to someone in my area and they know anything about me they will avoid my house and the homes of my closest neighbors.

Fear is an interesting thing.

Curval · « **Reply #254 on:** August 20, 2004, 07:49:37 AM »

Wrag, I will respond to you, because it seems you want to discuss the issue with logic and reason unlike others who clearly need a lesson in history, geography and philosophy.

Sure there is some violence in Bermuda. Bad things can happen anywhere.

Have I ever witnessed it? Some. Most of the real violence that I have seen or been affected by, however, was committed in the United States. A friend of mine was beaten to death by a cab driver in Florida who tried to rob him, for example. Another had to have reconstructive surgery on his face after being suckor punched in a bar by a biker who didn't like the way my friend looked.

I do not, however, feel fear on a regular basis.

Do you?

You seem to fear everything...your government, your fellow citizens, and fear that you will lose your guns. Come to think of it...I am more FREE from fear than you will ever be based upon what you have written.

Fear is very interesting.

With all you seem to have to fear I am not surprised you arm yourself.

I guess I am lucky. Disneyland was mentioned earlier. Statistically I am actually in far greater danger of being shot, beaten up or robbed at that theme park than at home.

I've never had a gun pointed at me in anger. I have never pointed a gun at anyone in anger.

I pray that the same holds true for my children.