Author Topic: The Offensive Against Sadr  (Read 1284 times)

Offline Curval

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« on: August 12, 2004, 07:21:54 AM »
I have read an awful lot about the risk of "enraging" the Shiite population if the mosques around which the fighting is taking place are damaged.

Can someone please explain why the same people are not enraged that Sadr is using these Holy sites as his base of operations?
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2004, 07:28:55 AM »
Probably a lot of people are.  I often hear that Sadr doesnt really represent most Shiiates and that hes basically barricaded himself in Najaf on the power of his militia. Is that true, I dont know..

Offline XtrmeJ

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2004, 07:31:08 AM »
Who say's they are'nt? He's probably forced his way in there and not much can be done to stop him.

Offline Curval

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2004, 07:36:06 AM »
But these same people will be "enraged" if the place is damaged by the offensive against Sadr?  Shouldn't all that rage be pointed at Sadr if they are so upset?  Afterall, the US and Iraqi forces fighting in this offensive are doing the job of getting rid of him for them...it is Sadr who will be responsible for any damage.
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Offline muckmaw

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2004, 07:41:53 AM »
Don't believe everything you read from AP.

We are not getting news anymore on just about every topic from Iraq on down.

It's sad...

Offline Eagler

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after making sure Sadr & co are in the "holy place" ...
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2004, 07:53:30 AM »
laser it and be done with it
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Offline Adogg

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2004, 07:56:12 AM »
He's a radical cleric. I would imagine that the opinion of the locals is split, probably a lot of people are ambivalent.

All they know is that the Americans are coming in to take an Iraqi cleric out.

For some it may just be as simple as a "them/us" situation. Understandable if regretable. We might all do the same thing if it were our home town.

I don't envy anyone on the ground in Iraq right now.

Didn't someone once say that truth was the first casualty of war?

Offline Otto

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2004, 07:56:36 AM »
We'll be seeing 'Wedding Parties' on the News any hour....

Offline Dago

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2004, 08:01:02 AM »
Toss in one of those Sarin rounds they found, that should do the trick without damaging the mosque.

Quote
Can someone please explain why the same people are not enraged that Sadr is using these Holy sites as his base of operations?


This is basically a reflection of the hypocrisy so common today towards the US.  They can defile and dissrespect the shrine, but we can't touch them for doing it.  

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Offline straffo

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Re: The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2004, 08:16:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
Can someone please explain why the same people are not enraged that Sadr is using these Holy sites as his base of operations?


If it was the Pope instead of Sadr ,where will be his base ?
(hint : it's not likely to be Istanbul :p)

Offline Gunslinger

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2004, 08:21:36 AM »
I think it goes to show how "evil" the US forces really are.  They are willing to adjust their battle plans and in some cases risk taking casualties to prevent offending the local populus.

From what I've heard most of the Iraqis are sic and tired of sadr....even his fellow clerics have basically given the green light for him to be taken out.

There was a good article on foxnews.com about Marines fighting in one of the worlds biggest graveyards.  The militants are orgainzed and have actually been training for this engagement.

Go Marines!

Offline Edbert

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Re: Re: The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2004, 08:26:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
If it was the Pope instead of Sadr ,where will be his base ?
(hint : it's not likely to be Istanbul :p)

If the Pope had a a bunch of heavilly armed militants that were out bombing buses, blowing up police stations, and was calling for a general uprising then I'd say take him out too.

Offline Eagler

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Re: Re: Re: The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2004, 08:44:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert MOL
If the Pope had a a bunch of heavilly armed militants that were out bombing buses, blowing up police stations, and was calling for a general uprising then I'd say take him out too.


and those "repressed" catholics would be first in line to do it - LOL
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Offline Glas

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2004, 08:47:38 AM »
The media are feeding you what they want you to hear.

Where exactly did you hear that the local populace werent 'enraged' by Sadr's actions?

Unless your there on the ground and actually getting a feeling for what is happening, it's presumptious to assume that the people there are 'pro-Sadr' or 'anti-US'.  You see only a tiny fraction of the population, and even then only through a camera lens.

Glas
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Offline babek-

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The Offensive Against Sadr
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2004, 08:52:40 AM »
The majority of the iraquis are shiites - and actually the in Iran born Ajatollah Sistani is their leader.

If Sistani survives until the elections in Iraq he will become the most votes of the (shiite) Iraquis.

The cleric Sadr on the other hand is a member of an old iraqui shiite dynasty which produced many famous ajatollahs who were highly respected by the iraqui shiites during the history in Iraq.
(Have you never asked yourself why one part of Bagdad is named "Sadr-City" ?)

He wants to become the leader of the shiites - and for this he cant sit and wait for the election or that the old Sistani possibly dies of natural death. So he plays his game in Nedjaf.

There were two other importat shiite ajatollahs - both, Ajatollah Chorei and Ajatollah Hakim wanted to cooperate with the US-occupation forces. And both were assassinated by shiite fanatics - and there are many hints that Sadr was behind these assasinations.

There were also attempts to assassinate Ajatollah Sistani, but Sistani is well protected by his own militia, the Badr-brigade, which were trained in Iran and sent to Iraq after the fall of Saddam to protect Sistani.
The Badr militia outnumbers the Sadr militia, but these are young men who are religious fanatics.

So maybe Sadr hopes that if the most holiest city of the shiites is under attack of heretics he could get control over them.

The importance of Nedjaf and Kerbala for shiites shouldnt be underestimated:

For the shiite muslims Nedjaf and Kerbala are holy cities and much more important than for example Mekka or Jerusalem.

In the past one of the most holiest people for the Shiites, Imam Husein, died in a battle against the (per shiite definition) sunnite heretics. He was badly outnumbered and there was no doubt that he and his small army would be killed in the battle - but he went into this battle and died along with all his people - becoming a martyr of shiite islam and a symbol of those who sacrifice themself in battle against heretics.

And this is the danger in the situation now: Sadr must be captured alive and shown as a prisoner in TV and press - then he will loose all his power in the shiite population at once.

If he manages to get killed in the holy city of the shiites with an outnumbered army against christian and sunnite heretics he will become a martyr and the situation could get totally out of control.

And if the US-troops will stop their attacks instead of getting or killing Sadr he will also gain much power and maybe try again to get Sistani assassinated to become the religious leader of the iraqui shiites.

So its quite interesting to follow the events in Iraq and the possible consequences.