Author Topic: Rangoon '42 (Read 6074 times)

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #30 on:** August 28, 2004, 11:37:23 PM »

I don't expect missions to run 4 hours ... I just leave it as an option so that, should the IJA get a good strike in, they can go for the throat.

I hear half the people say the 88 is too tough to bring down with .303's, the other half too easy. I know it takes a pile of .303 to bring down a P51 drone. With the exception of the P40E, everything else has 4 .50's or 8 .303's ... hardly bomber killing hardware. And the Allied planes will be severely outnumbered. I don't think it'll be that lopsided. If anything, I'm worried about the Allies being able to get through the fighter screen - something they didn't have to worry about much in the real battle as the bombers usually got too far ahead of the fighters.

RDRTrash · « **Reply #31 on:** August 29, 2004, 05:17:33 PM »

Just saw this thread...

I'd like to preregister, and I'll take the 88's. No positions above FL though, I need a break.

IMO, the bombers should not be singles. Even as a threesome, they can really only hit one target anyway, and the entire group is subject to getting the aiming screwed up by porking just the lead bird. Too long of a flight to depend on just a single bird. And Lastly, it's too hard to get people to commit to flying a bomber in a scenario, so I don't think it's wise to make it even harder for that pilot to achieve a meaningful objective.

'nuff of my .02

jordi · « **Reply #32 on:** August 29, 2004, 10:15:50 PM »

How do the three Saturdays BEFORE Thanksgiving - take a week off and then the three Saturdays AFTER Thanksgiving.

3:00 PM ET Start time.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #33 on:** August 29, 2004, 10:55:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by jordi
How do the three Saturdays BEFORE Thanksgiving - take a week off and then the three Saturdays AFTER Thanksgiving.

3:00 PM ET Start time.

That's fine for me ... its more crucial for your crew being able to cover it. There is some chance I may be travelling one of those weekends in December, but at the moment I can't be sure.

As for the Ju-88's ... based on what I've heard from BoB event, an 88 is tough to bring down with .303's. So that's a third of the Allied fighters that aren't a serious threat right there. Half the P40's only have only 2 .50 cals. All the ANZAC planes only have 4 .50 cals. Assuming the Allies pick the P40E Wildcard, that gives them 24 serious threat planes armed with 6 .50's. But even that isn't nearly the same as 20mm cannon ... as any MA experience clearly shows.

And it would be purely silly if the 88's (in formations) were able to survive simply because the Allied planes ran out of ammo trying to bring them down. 27 88 formations is 81 planes ... that needs an awful lot of .303 ammo. Hell ... I don't even know if the IJA had that many bombers in theatre at the time.

Add to that the odds. Even if the IJA decides to go with the 9 extra bombers as their wildcard, they could sweep with as many fighters as the Allies have total (88) and that still leaves 60 for close escort. And the Zeke has the fuel range to loiter plenty long to keep a lane for the bombers clear. And, with the altitude limits, the Allied planes pretty much need to punch through the screen instead of just flying over it as has happened in past events.

And the M5 Zero is as fast or faster flying level than everything but a Spit and P40E, and better gunned than anything the Allies have save for the 4 Spit V's in command flight. So these fighters in a sweep can really be a threat.

Anyway ... I think the Allies are faced with a pretty tough situation as it is. If they manage to fight their way to the bomber stream, they should at least be given some chance to doing some damage.

jordi · « **Reply #34 on:** August 30, 2004, 06:24:48 AM »

One thing you can do is give the IJN the OPTION To fly bombers with formations ON to get up to the required number you want in the air.

Lets say the rules calls for 27 ( ? ) but just 20 sign up for bombers and just 15 show up on frame day.

You could allow the IJN CO to launch 8 with formations ( 24 ) + 2 singles Ju88's for 26 total bombers.

You could even have some pilots BAIL from the lead plane to reduce the numbers as needed.

RDRTrash · « **Reply #35 on:** August 30, 2004, 08:41:29 AM »

That's an outstanding Idea Jordi.

Only quirk of it would be that a given target might need multiple flight paths to destroy it, something a 'cell' of bombers can't accomplish (like a large Airfield for instance, where the planner should have at least 7 piloted bombers pass over to give an adequate chance to kill only the 7 FH at a large base, and even then, the pilots in question would need to have a 100% accuracy). In those cases you'd need to make sure you have a minimum number of actual pilots.

Otherwise, a fantastic idea.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #36 on:** August 30, 2004, 09:46:20 AM »

I can consider that ... I'd like to see if we can get a full roster first, though.

The buildings won't be hangar tough. Just your basic big city buildings. The internal stores on an 88 would be enough - but with both internal and external, and so many planes dropping, it's reasonable to expect 100% coverage.

RDRTrash · « **Reply #37 on:** August 30, 2004, 09:58:15 AM »

Well, the partial cell idea is great on frame day when some of the pilots don't show up. A problem during BOB.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #38 on:** August 30, 2004, 10:00:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by RDRTrash
Well, the partial cell idea is great on frame day when some of the pilots don't show up. A problem during BOB.

I agree. But the rationale of needing 81 bombers simply because of building toughness doesn't apply. And I don't want to wheel this option out until we need it - or it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. "We only really need 3 people per bomber group, so I'll fly a fighter instead.").

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #39 on:** August 30, 2004, 06:28:52 PM »

I've added a flight analysis of the planes involved in this event to the write-up. This shows speed and climb at 10K, as well as weapons.

United · « **Reply #40 on:** August 30, 2004, 10:02:06 PM »

I'd like to offer my services skinning something if needed. Just let me know and Ill see if I can get it done or not. Looks exciting!

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #41 on:** August 31, 2004, 12:10:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by United
I'd like to offer my services skinning something if needed. Just let me know and Ill see if I can get it done or not. Looks exciting!

Thanks ... this is being fast-tracked pretty hard. Only think I can think of would be a Japanese skin for the Ju-88 ... which probably wouldn't be too tough given the color scheme.

-DoK

Brooke · « **Reply #42 on:** August 31, 2004, 11:10:03 PM »

I actually like the idea of one pilot per bomber. It's more realistic feeling.

Of course, my tolerance for how things go in bombers is pretty low. I'm more used to Air Warrior scenarios from the days when it was one pilot per bomber, usually no gunner at all, one gun per gunner when you had them, not much chance of damaging a fighter with bomber guns (as they were very weak and headons against fighters were low probability), and very low bomber toughness. All a fighter usually had to do was fly up a bomber's tail firing, and it would go down, no matter the bomber and no matter the fighter. Later, folks turned up the bomber toughness a lot, which helped, but still usually it meant that, regardless of escort, if your bomber formation was found by enemy fighters, all the bombers were dead. Bombers very frequently flew long missions only to be shot down well short of target.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #43 on:** September 01, 2004, 12:28:37 AM »

Cannon-armed fighters getting into a bomber stream is bad news for bombers. And should be.

This event should turn out different. For one thing, only 4 Allied planes have cannons: the HQ flight. And most of the Allied fighters have .303's or only 4 .50's - hardly ideal for killing bombers. Next is the speed issue - unlike the usual Fw190 v. B17 match-up, in this one if the Allies miss the bounce they have a long tail chase ahead of them because of the relative speeds of the planes and lack of acceleration.

That being said, if the IJA lets a squadron of P-40E's get through, they should expect to see bombers going down. Which is what should happen.

Naso · « **Reply #44 on:** September 03, 2004, 05:20:12 AM »

I want to pre-register too, this event has the cards to be GREAT!

Noticed a thing, in the plane table the F4F is stated having 4 x 0.50 but it can mount 6 x 0.50 too, how can you enforce that?