well noone else has asked

[Swoosh]

According to this book, "WWII Air War" by Cowles History Group, Captain Richard I. Bong became famous when he starting flying wing with Lt. Col. Thomas J. Lynch.  Their team became known as "the Flying Circus."  They became such a successful duo in their and morale booster that they were allowed freedom in mission creation and execution not given to anyone else in my knowledge.  Both flew P-38s in the Pacific Arena while together.

Lynch died when the Flying Circus strafed a Japanese ship convoy just north of Aitape Harbor, what appeared to be three fishing boats and three barges.  On Lynches second pass, he was struck by small arms fire which knocked out his right engine.  Lynch ditched in the jungle near the harbor and was never found.  I can't find a record of his final tally here.

Richard Bong died pretty much like stated above by  a few people, when his P-80 Shooting Star flamed out too low to survive a bailout attempt.  Credited with 40 kills.

I love the P-38!  Its gotta be the coolest looking fighter of all time.  If I could have one plane, it would be a P-38.  After that, it would have to be Austin Powers' jet with the rotating bed.  I doubt well see a jumbo jet in the sim anytime soon, so I'm anxiously awaing the P-38!

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Swoosh of the Skeleton Crew

[-towd_]

went and bought a interact cyclone j stick today.

the main selling point ?

2 throttles, can u say cloverleaf?

[worr]

Fats reported:

I did discover ( surely the regular P-38 fliers knew of it I am sure ) the flip-flop

+++++++++++

Ah, yes, the famous flip-flop sightings of WB. That was quite a cult following for some time. <g>

Worr, out


[This message has been edited by worr (edited 02-25-2000).]

[Hangtime]

As I recall the cloverleaf was a simple wingover. Outside engine firewalled; inside at idle; tromp the rudder.

Hang

[Grumble]

    First Dick Bong was a horrible shot (that IS NOT a lie either) i think he didnt hit a darn thing he shot at for his first many combats.  Even after taking some "remedial" Gunnery training it really didnt help him at all. CURE= Get pretty darn close until you cant miss (i.e. Erich Hartmann).
    As far as the counter-rotating props, the answer is YES they were. Hence a very old Army Airforce song (taken from one if my @200 aviation books) that goes like this:

Dont give me a P-38
With Props that Counter-rotate
It will look loop, roll and spin
but soon auger in
Dont give me a P-38

The P-39 had its own song too:

Dont give me a P-39
with an engine thats mounted behind
It will tumble and roll
and dig a big hole
Dont give me a P-39

    I have some other interesting data on some planes and songs from the AAF but i will post them in the appropriate forum.

Sincerly,

GrumbleGrumble

Formerly Ivan the Terrible on GEnie Airwarrior in the early 90's
aka Gen. Ivanovitch Krukinsky
Former 2400Baud Yak-9D Pilot extrordinare'  

[Sundog]

What is really interesting is that the engine location of the P-39 made it very amneuverable (But watch those spins!). I beleieve that is one reason the Russian pilots loved it. I believe the Russians weren't `afraid' or trained better for the stall, which is why they were so successful with it. Or was it just that the U.S. Army Air Force only wanted planes that could fly at altitude, and since they weren't putting the superchargers in the P-39 as originally intended, they just shipped them to Russia. I do know some were kept stateside for training (Per Yeager's book), but does anyone have more REAL info on why the P-39s were so disliked by the US and were so well liked by the Russians?

[Minotaur]

Grumble;

If you get time can you look something up for me?

I seem to remember reading somewhere, that in the same time period that Bong scored all of his victories, Hartman only had something like 9 kills.  

Hartman and many other German Aces, became extremely experienced fighting against the inferior Soviet Air Force during the period of time right after Germany opened that front.

Does this sound right?

Thanks in advance.  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 02-25-2000).]

[MiG Eater]

I've got part of the requested info:

Hartmann claimed his 9th kill on his 117th mission on April 28th, 1943.  It was a LaGG-3.  

From Hartmann's log book, published in the appendix of "The Blond Knight Of Germany."

MiG

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Fly Hard, Land Soft
   http://www.cutthroats.com


[This message has been edited by MiG Eater (edited 02-25-2000).]

[Citabr]

maybe I've got my acro terminology mixed up but a modern day common clover leaf is nothing but a series of ussually 4 loops that make the shape of a clover.

this mystic maneuver crap is just that.
only way i can see that being an advantage is hammering over with 1 engine idled insta quick on each one and descending back in to kill.

lots of terminology has changed since the 40's though  

[pzvg]

Lots of fine pilot's flew inferior aircraft,so do not judge it as "they only killed biplanes and such" some of the Luftwaffe guys started in Spain,went on to poland,France,and the BOB, before they went to Russia. Dick Bong was never known as Ira,
that was Ira Kepford. In closing, remember,
if it has guns it can kill you, and anybody who has faced those guns 200 times (and probably more) and came away alive does deserve credit for being very good at what they do.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[Downtown]

Well the P-40 and B-17 were in Production during the whole war.

And I think the P-47 was in production when the war started.

I don't know that it was called a clover leaf but according to the History Channel Show about Aces I saw, McGuire taught Bong the Tactic.  After Bongs first Tour he went back to the Pacific as a gunner instructor, and was not supposed to fly combat.  I saw a letter from Hap Arnold Chastising Bong when he got his 36s.  The Letter said that Bong was an instructor and not supposed to be flying combat missions.  Apparently being Chastised by Hap Arnold didn't deter Richard "Dick" I. (Ira) Bong.

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Lincoln "Downtown" Brown.
 lkbrown1@tir.com  
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!