Author Topic: America's REAL Leader.  (Read 1394 times)

Offline Sikboy

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America's REAL Leader.
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2004, 02:31:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
You went to canada?  Willingly?


Ever been to the Valley?

If I had to go back, I might choose Canada too lol.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2004, 03:05:59 PM »
In a two-party system in a unidimensional space, the median voter's ideal policy position generally becomes the government's policy position.  That is, where 50% + 1 person of the population prefer a certain policy, a two-party government would adopt that policy.  The two parties vie for control of the middle of the political spectrum and policy tends to reflect this.  

In a multi-party (i.e. more than two-party) system, coalitions between extreme groups can lead to sub-optimal policies, or those less preferable to the population median's preferences.  Extremist parties could "trade" extreme policies with one another, all the while drawing the policy farther to the left and right from the population median's preferred position.

Imagine it this way: the wacko extremist pinko party represents 30% of the population on the far left.  The independent moderates represent 40% of the population in the middle.  The gun-toting facists comprise the last 30% of the population on the far right.  It is possible (and it has, in fact, happened) that the two extremist parties join together to form a majority voting bloc and trade votes on issues of particular importance to them.  Thus the pinkos, with the support of the far right, move every citizen into a commune, and the facists, with the support of the far left, give every newborn baby a machine gun.  These policy outcomes fall far outside the preferences of the population median voter.  Thus they are suboptimal from a representative standpoint.

They are also suboptimal because the pinkos would prefer the population median's position over the facists' position on gun control, and the facists would prefer the population median's positions over the pinkos' on matters of communal living.  Yet the extremist positions prevail through vote trading and coalition formation.  Policy does not reflect the preferences of a majority of voters.

-- Todd/Leviathn
« Last Edit: August 30, 2004, 03:14:58 PM by Dead Man Flying »

Offline anonymous

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Re: America's REAL Leader.
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2004, 09:45:15 PM »
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Originally posted by rpm371
source

Why isn't McCain in the White House today? He crosses the political lines with his views and support. He's a moral, honorable, trustworthy politician. How many can you say THAT about? The country needs and deserves a leader like John McCain.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_mccain&cid=694&ncid=716

welcome to the bush junta my friend. :)

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2004, 11:17:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
mc ca8in is too liberal and socialistic for most people... he is far from a republican...  I think he should be one of the few republifcans who switches to democrat.

I believe that the war damaged him... he is damaged goods.  

lazs

McCain was a foot soldier for Regan in the house, and later in the Senate.  He was and still is a phsical conservative, and a hawk.  He is a little more moderate on social issues (not socialist), and has become stubborn in the post-Regan era.  His track record of going aginst the party line was the reason reps decided it wasnt his turn yet.

His war on terror support, and cross party appeal may give in a chance in '08 though.

Offline Nash

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Re: America's REAL Leader.
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2004, 11:20:44 PM »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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America's REAL Leader.
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2004, 11:25:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
In a two-party system in a unidimensional space, the median voter's ideal policy position generally becomes the government's policy position.  That is, where 50% + 1 person of the population prefer a certain policy, a two-party government would adopt that policy.  The two parties vie for control of the middle of the political spectrum and policy tends to reflect this.  

In a multi-party (i.e. more than two-party) system, coalitions between extreme groups can lead to sub-optimal policies, or those less preferable to the population median's preferences.  Extremist parties could "trade" extreme policies with one another, all the while drawing the policy farther to the left and right from the population median's preferred position.

Imagine it this way: the wacko extremist pinko party represents 30% of the population on the far left.  The independent moderates represent 40% of the population in the middle.  The gun-toting facists comprise the last 30% of the population on the far right.  It is possible (and it has, in fact, happened) that the two extremist parties join together to form a majority voting bloc and trade votes on issues of particular importance to them.  Thus the pinkos, with the support of the far right, move every citizen into a commune, and the facists, with the support of the far left, give every newborn baby a machine gun.  These policy outcomes fall far outside the preferences of the population median voter.  Thus they are suboptimal from a representative standpoint.

They are also suboptimal because the pinkos would prefer the population median's position over the facists' position on gun control, and the facists would prefer the population median's positions over the pinkos' on matters of communal living.  Yet the extremist positions prevail through vote trading and coalition formation.  Policy does not reflect the preferences of a majority of voters.

-- Todd/Leviathn


And thus Europe's political outcomes suck!

Thank you for the lecture professor Levi!


Offline Nash

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« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2004, 11:28:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thank you for the lecture professor Levi!


I thank you too. But probably for very different reasons than Grunherz's.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2004, 11:39:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Nash
I thank you too. But probably for very different reasons than Grunherz's.


Say does Canada have a multiparty system?

Offline Nash

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« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2004, 11:44:24 PM »
Say, are you serious?

I ask that because.... Most of the developed world has a somewhat tenable grasp on the fundamental political systems of many countries besides their own.

And you don't have any idea about your own neighbor's?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2004, 11:50:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Say, are you serious?

I ask that because.... Most of the developed world has a somewhat tenable grasp on the fundamental political systems of many countries besides their own.

And you don't have any idea about your own neighbor's?


Nash finally realizes that Canada really doesnt matter much to most americans.  He cries.

Here you go Nash!



BTW Nash I thought you guys did, but wanted to confirm it by asking you. Too bad your your insecurities and prejudises dont let you just answer the questiom..
« Last Edit: August 30, 2004, 11:52:56 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline Nash

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« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2004, 11:55:41 PM »
ohhh zinger. uh-huh..

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2004, 12:08:44 AM »
So whats your answer nash?

Does Canada produce suboptimal extremist political outcomes beacuse of a multiparty system or due to some other uniquiely canadian deficiency?

Offline opus

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« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2004, 12:12:57 AM »
>>Why isn't McCain in the White House today? <<

Because he didn't have the ENORMOUS warchest that Bush had in 2000. But McCain will be President one day - I'd bet on it.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2004, 12:17:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grunherz
Does Canada produce suboptimal extremist political outcomes beacuse of a multiparty system or due to some other uniquiely canadian deficiency?


Bite me.

Quote
Originally posted by opus
>>Why isn't McCain in the White House today? <<


Because he's the father of an illegitimate black child and is the deranged veteran of a war that scarred his entire mind.

I thought everyone knew that.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2004, 12:18:45 AM »
Keep in mind that a multi-party system may lead to suboptimal outcomes in the special case I described above.  This does not mean that all policy in multi-party  systems is unrepresentative.  For the most part, multi-party systems function perfectly well when extreme parties do not form coalitions together (which is rare).  Also, the example above greatly simplifies multi-dimensional reality.

-- Todd/Leviathn