ok while im griping 17s as acks suc!!

[Downtown]

I like the idea of Bombing the Ack Wagons on the Runway.

I reccomended that folks take the 4 20MM Cannon armed Niks and strafe them on the runway.

They get deaths also.

I just wish HT or Pyro or one of them would have seen this so they could close the accounts of the dweebs.

I don't think we need any program modifications.

I should be a genearl consesus of players that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

A call of "Ackstars F22 Runway should be all that is needed" every plane not otherwise engaged should mount an attack on the respawning "AckDweebs" and pad their score.

Let them regen, if I kill 5 with a bombing pass I am an ace and get a medal right.

Yes, aircraft sitting on a runway, that is what I want.

Something does need to be done about the respawning, we were unable to get C-47s in cause the "Ackstars" killed them and our Drunks, we couldn't capture the field with all the B-17s on the runway.

Make C-47s and their drunks invunrable to Gunners on the ground! That is a solution.

------------------
"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
lkbrown1@tir.com
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Very Opinionated Person.

[Gadfly]

Ha, Ha, too damn funny!

[Hristo]

As far as I know, B 17 in AH have manned gunner positions only.

So what's the the problem ? Could US bomber crew fire their guns from ground ? You bet they could.

If, by chance, B 17s were bounced in England on the take off, you think gunners wouldn't shoot ??

So deal with it. Gunner positions are manned and it is the other player that fights for his virtual life when you attack his low B 17.

Instead of whining, try to plan your approach and coordinate attacks.

Hristo,
I/JG 51
 
Jagdgeschwader 51 “Mölders”

[rosco-]

 True hristo, but in RL when you killed one of those b17's and/or any of its crew they didnt find themselves back in the tower and they didnt click fly again and right away end back on the runway ackstaring again. Its up to the community to decide whats ok and what is not, and I think most people would agree that this kind of stuff wont be tolerated.
 However, if you are complaining about this and at the same time fly over fields looking for a vulch to pad your score....your a hypocrite.   *genuine attempts to capture a field aside of course*

[aircat]

Hristo,
that was on TAKE OFF... those are the 2 key words here... not STAYING ON FIELD. we sent in several C-47s when we got the word that the field was ready for capture... we had a couple got through the thin fighter def. only to be shot down by 17s and the drunks shot up as well.

[Azrael]

I really hope that any treatment of the ackstar problem doesn't cut into the current buff gunnery model. In it's current state it feels about right if you are at high alt - low 6 bounces are usually suicide for the attacker although some gunship (N1K) attacks tend to inflict some damage, otoh I witnessed some beautiful flown 109 attacks that were just cool - and I highly respect the guys that fly those attacks and test the weaknesses of the _human_ opponents. <S> Hristo on that occasion.

While I don't like the ackstar idea I and would rather switch side than support such dweebery I'd like to remind you that there have been historical engagement between B-17's and japanese flight boats which were basically ackstarring. Have a look at this URL:  http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~fk7h-tkuc/hp/english/h6ksty.html .

The best solution for the base ackstars would be a Wirbelwind, Ostwind or similar quadruple self-propelled flak availiable at the bases. OTOH the should be a way to deny the defenders endless resources of acks then. Additionally, a 'gear up' requirement to be able to fire the guns on the buffs would be reasonable - I don't know if it is implemented that you can see the dropped gear of opponents but honorable players would know that a buff dropping his gear in flight is surrendering.

Az

------------------
Azrael
XO 487th BG (Heavy)
'The Gentlemen from Hell'

[Oldfella]

I flew three or four B17 sorties last nite,
for Bishops all from rear fields (f1)
I managed to drop only four bombs,in
all from 10-15K.I couldn't find a gunner so I had to do it myself. Its hard to fly,dropbombs and gun at the same time. I was a turkey waiting to be shot on each sortie.I love it just the way it is. A B17 can't get enough altitude from a forward field to make a bomb run and avoid ground fire from an enemy field anway, so if anyone uses B17 for ak shift them to a rear field (forceably).I mean,you can't take off and be your own gunner at the same time.So if you don't have a gunner and your not taking off your and your guns are active your an Akstar.  
Just my opinion. (Oh and great shooting
to all those who nailed me good last nite.)
I'll be back to-nite God willing (wife)

[milnko]

Couple of things to throw in the pot......
I was in the Navy back in the early 80's (81 to 89) and on the A/C I worked on (S-3A Viking) we had a feature called "weight on gear" and it had an accompanying light on the master panel, well this light had to be lit to do things like fold the wings and tail, and had to be OFF to do things like raise the gear or fire ordanace, this of course is the equivalant of an "idiot light" to prevent the pilot from folding his wings in flight or sparking off a harpoon while he's sitting on the deck.

Speaking of which BTW, when HTC gets around to modeling the F4U it'd be cool to have folding wings and a tail hook that lowers and raises....especially if they add water and aircraft carriers, as it is now, both WB and AW allow NO HOOK type planes to land on carriers. (being an old bird farm sailor it kinda tweeks my noggin to see a B-17 land on a carrier)

Next as many of you know, in AW they had the FLAKPANZER, which people used to retailate against the VULCHER.
Now personally, I have been know to vulch (not just strafe the field), once a couple years ago when I was in AW, I got a 15,000 point flight cuz some guy was SO PISSED about being shot down at his base, he kept replaning and launching at the same field.....the smart move woulda been to takeoff from one field next door, but hey we all have been known to get a little "worked up" about the flight sims we play. but as we also all know, getting vulched SUCKS!
I usally refrain from vulching (I usually call it field suppression btw), because it doesn't take alot of skill, it isn't mano-a-mano fighting, it's target practice.
Guess it kinda depends on if your the vulcher or the vulchee huh?
So I guess until we get FLAKPANZERs to protect us on takeoff we gotta kinda live with B-17's as ACKSTARS and would be Flakpanzers.
Just my two cents.

------------------
-CyberPilots have bigger Joysticks-
-----------------------------------
MILENKO Homepage
<===THE ASSASSINS===>Webpage
    milnko@warbirds.org    

[Grizzly]

I haven't flown AH much and know nothing of capturing bases there, but in AW you can't capture a base until it has been destroyed. And after it's destroyed, you can't spawn planes or Flak. If this ackstar thing is a problem for capturing bases, why not do the same as in AW? Then before capturing a base, you could clear the field of remaining resistance and not worry about ackstars spawning.

[SC-GreyBeard]

*see "fix for "ackstar" base holding"

[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 11-01-1999).]

[Minotaur]

I believe it takes quite some time on the ground by the flight crew to get a real B-17 airborne.  Possible more than an hour.

Simulate this, while the pilot is planning his strike, the ground crew (3 to 6 minute delay in takeoff) readies the ship.

Mino

[Downtown]

I have been vultched and bounced numerous times.

The only time I find it questionable is when your enemy is down to his last field, and you don't go for the close, and you just let them respawn to pad your scores.

I go for the close, and for the capture.

The night in question (Saturday Night) When I first saw the Bishop B-17s on the Ruway, I was in a B-17 at 20K.  I dropped a couple bombs and only got the Runway.

I had made numerous passes at F22 with B-17s the whole night, as a gunner and Pilot.

After a couple passes, me and SMitty or 214???J had F22 ready for the capture.  I Landed at F21 and took a Goonie from F19 only to get waxed by the B-17s on the Runway.

To my knowledge everthing at F21 was destroyed, and the base should have been closed.

There were 4 Bishop B-17s on the ruway, just sitting there.

I wish that Bombs would kill planes, I could have got 12 kills.

------------------
"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
lkbrown1@tir.com
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Very Opinionated Person.