Iran is in BIG trouble now!

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Maniac
Its evident that the Americans in this thread are bitter because we in Europe was right the entire time.

Right about what?  Don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-Amerrikan rant, Maniac:

"Why are we having such difficulty in finding weapons or in reaching a confident conclusion that they do not exist or that they once existed but have been removed? Our search efforts are being hindered by six principal factors:

From birth all of Iraq's WMD activities were highly compartmentalized within a regime that ruled and kept its secrets through fear and terror and with deception and denial built into each program;


Deliberate dispersal and destruction of material and documentation related to weapons programs began pre-conflict and ran trans-to-post conflict;


Post-OIF looting destroyed or dispersed important and easily collectable material and forensic evidence concerning Iraq's WMD program. As the report covers in detail, significant elements of this looting were carried out in a systematic and deliberate manner, with the clear aim of concealing pre-OIF activities of Saddam's regime;


Some WMD personnel crossed borders in the pre/trans conflict period and may have taken evidence and even weapons-related materials with them;


Any actual WMD weapons or material is likely to be small in relation to the total conventional armaments footprint and difficult to near impossible to identify with normal search procedures. It is important to keep in mind that even the bulkiest materials we are searching for, in the quantities we would expect to find, can be concealed in spaces not much larger than a two car garage;


The environment in Iraq remains far from permissive for our activities, with many Iraqis that we talk to reporting threats and overt acts of intimidation and our own personnel being the subject of threats and attacks. In September alone we have had three attacks on ISG facilities or teams: The ISG base in Irbil was bombed and four staff injured, two very seriously; a two person team had their vehicle blocked by gunmen and only escaped by firing back through their own windshield; and on Wednesday, 24 September, the ISG Headquarters in Baghdad again was subject to mortar attack.
Supporting Images

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Vials: A total of 97 vials-including those with labels consistent with the al Hakam cover stories of single-cell protein and biopesticides, as well as strains that could be used to produce BW agents-were recovered from a scientist's residence.
 

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Lab Equipment From Mosque.
 

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Burned Documents Found at SAAD Center: An exploitation team on a recent mission to the SAAD Center, part of the Baghdad New Nuclear Design Center, found massive looting and the remnants of deliberately destroyed documents. Other documents were left untouched, however, and recovered by the team
 

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Storage room in basement of Revolutionary Command Council Headquarters. Burned frames of PC workstations visible on shelves. All rooms sharing walls with this storage room were untouched from fire or battle damage.
 

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Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The basement historical files were systematically selected and destroyed.
 
What have we found and what have we not found in the first 3 months of our work?

We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:

A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.


A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.


Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.


New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.


Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).


A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of  500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.


Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.


Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km - well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.


Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment.

[ASTAC]

Originally posted by xrtoronto
ya...like the world respects america? LOL

[SIZE=24]NOT[/SIZE]

Who cares if you respect us or not?

[AWMac]

Heh for a country that is a lil over 200 years old...

We have alotta BALLS!!!




Name another country that has the Freedoms that Americans have....

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Right about what?  Don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-Amerrikan rant, Maniac:

What facts? i dont see any facts that show that Iraq has or had stockpiles of WMD´s or any WMD´s ready to use in 45 minutes against USA.

[Raubvogel]

Originally posted by xrtoronto
ya...like the world respects america? LOL

[SIZE=24]NOT[/SIZE]

I think the majority of the world respects the US's ability to return their country to the Stone Age

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by NUKE
Well, the UN was wrong when they said Iraq probably had WMD. Europe said the same thing.

And Bush said Iraq had WMD.  See the difference?

The US told everyone that because the UN would not back it's resolutions with even the threat of force and Iraq was still not complying, we would go in alone if need be. That's how it was "sold"

In the US proposed and accepted resolution 1441, it was determined that it would be up to the entire SC to determine if Iraq was complying, not the US alone.

Bush made the rules, got the SC to adopt them, then said they didn't count.

And it wasn't primarily sold and an invasion for non-compliance but because Iraq was an imminent threat.  Hence the use of term of "pre-emptive attack".  Pre-empting the imminent attack by Iraq.

[Rino]

Originally posted by GScholz
Yeah Nash. I know with some certainty that statistically there are no more dumb people in the US per capita than in other western countries. However every time I drop by the O' Club those beliefs are challenged.

     Seeing some real brain surgeons coming out of Europe too...
not that they would ever admit it.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by NUKE
actually the UN said Iraq probably had WMD. Why do you think the UN had resolutions against Iraq?

Iraq was not complying with UN resolutions and the UN never backed up their words with the threat of force, so now NOBODY care what the UN demands. The UN made itself a paper tiger.

"Probably had WMD" -> thats why the inspectors were sent there, to see whether there was traces of WMD or not.
"Probability" is a probability.. not a definite thing.

Iraq did have some minor incompliances.. but so does many other countries. Does that mean UN should be starting the third world war?

Somehow every breach of resolution by Iraq was put under a microscope and rest of the world ignored.
Maybe had something to do with the fact that americans were little more than slightly pissed off after 9/11 and Bush was succesful at directing the anger towards Saddam, with his simple propaganda.

Americans failed in their war against terror when they fell in the Bush's words.
Now better make sure Iraq will come out well, thats the only chance for you americans.
Otherwise the war against terrorism in Iraq was only a large scale recruitment campaign for the terrorists.


...and those who thinks it doesn't matter what the world thinks about america, are quite wrong... well.. if they want to keep their economy on the track.. that is.

[cpxxx]

Plenty of pointless argument here.  Iran may have sanctions applied against them by the UN probably instigated by the USA.  As ever.

The fact is that as it stands right now, Iran does not present a threat unlike Iraq.  You might say they'll attack Israel but that amounts to suicide because Israel has nukes too and have the protection of America who can obliterate Iran in an afternoon.

If Iran has nukes they are largely defensive because of course their biggest fear is invasion by America which now has troops in countries on either side. Countries with nukes don't get invaded for obvious reasons.  

But of course the USA won't invade Iran for all sorts of reasons.  No Arab or Muslim country would allow a troop build up on their soil and no other country would support an invasion of Iran not even Britain.
The Iranians are not Arabs. They don't live under a cruel dictator but a government they elected. They will fight hard. US casualities would be horrendous. There can be no pretence of liberation.  
If the US learned one thing from the occupation of Iraq then there will be resistance.  Imagine what it would be like in Iran.  America would have to stay forever. Any government elected by Iranians will be exactly the same as the current government.

They may have nukes, have no doubt they would use them to stop an invasion.

Finally there is practically no benefit for a US president to invade Iran. Iraq was an obvious threat but what threat is Iran?

No the arguments are futile. There will be no more invasions by the US in the near future. A lesson has been learned.

[straffo]

Originally posted by AWMac
Name another country that has the Freedoms that Americans have....

[Fishu]

Originally posted by cpxxx
Iraq was an obvious threat but what threat is Iran?

I'm still rather doubtful about the part of Iraq being a threat

[ET]

I hope that  IF  the U.N. ever decides to use troops to take out Irans Nuclear plants that the U.S. volunteers as many troops to the force as Norway or Canada does.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by straffo

ADD: us and the kiwis; our canadian cousins (lol is the UK in the EU?)...

 Tronsky

[Saintaw]

Originally posted by AWMac
Name another country that has the Freedoms that Americans have....

I am more free than any of you will ever be.

[moot]

Originally posted by straffo

sorry straffo, but the usa is the best place to live in the world, imo. Besides patriotism and nostalgia of croissants and quatre-quarts and nice white butt cheeks which you get plenty of over there too.
Culture is the only thing I'd regret from over here and it's not so distant once you make enough to spend vacations every now and then and can buy yourself litterature and music and movies etc.

Same ****, different country.  Only in the US, everyone gets more **** more easily:D

edit: the only thing without alternative, imo, is K12 education.