Author Topic: US ww2 issue 20mm HE VS: 55gal. empty oil drum (Read 2887 times)

Ring · « **on:** September 22, 2004, 06:45:47 PM »

http://www.axishq.wwiionline.com/~ring/info/ammo/GlacierGirl20mm.wmv

Enjoy

that was a REAL
Hispano M2
20mm HEI 6.98 Tetryl +4.3g Incendiary
that was still in the gun when found...

what do you think a 20mm Minengeschoss with 18g PETN would do?

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2004, 06:53:54 PM »

Keep in mind that the US M2 20mm cannon is a Hispano Mk II cannon.

Ring · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2004, 07:59:58 PM »

and?

its the same 1 the brits used

Tails · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2004, 08:20:26 PM »

Mk 1 cannon, Mk 2 cannon...either way you slice it, that was still one damned big hole!:eek:

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2004, 08:26:27 PM »

No, from what I've read around the boards, The Mk2 was a bit better than the Mk1.

Karnak · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2004, 09:48:07 PM »

I don't know what the M1 20mm cannon was, but I'm not sure it was related to the M2 20mm cannon.

The M2 is the same as the Hispano Mk II. I don't think we ever had an equivilent of the Hispnao Mk I. The Hispano Mk I had a 60 round drum magazine, the Hispano Mk II was belt fed.

Nice video now that I've seen it on a system that wasn't 50% artifacts.

That should give some people an idea of how the RAF/USAAF cannons were. Too often they Hispano/M2 gets painted as firing some AP round that would just punch a little hole and not do any real damage like the German rounds.

The bottom line was that getting hit by a 20mm round, any 20mm round, was really unhealthy.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2004, 10:32:03 PM »

From the way it was laid out to me, the Mk2 20mm bullet is different than the Mk1 20mm bullet. Hence you had to have a different gun to shoot it.

Crumpp · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2004, 10:48:22 PM »

Was that drum filled with anything?

You guys haven't seen that MGFF-M round hit that wing section...

Nothing but confetti left.

Getting hit with a 20mm was bad.

Crumpp

Karnak · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2004, 10:49:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
From the way it was laid out to me, the Mk2 20mm bullet is different than the Mk1 20mm bullet. Hence you had to have a different gun to shoot it.

No, you must be thinking of the M1 and AN-M2 cannons, not the Mk I and Mk II 20mm cannons.

M1 and M2 are both US service names and do not indicate any relationship bewteen the cannons. In fact the M1 was a 37mm cannon.

Mk I and MK II are UK terms using, in this case, in relation to the Hispano-Suiza HS404 cannon. The Mk I being the original French cannon and the Mk II being the modified cannon for British service. The Hispano Mk I, Mk II and Mk V all chambered the same exact rounds.

Karnak · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2004, 10:50:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Crumpp
guys haven't seen that MGFF-M round hit that wing section...

Yes I have and it wasn't any more impressive. The little thing they'd built was just some aluminium wraped around a couple of wooden blocks. Not nearly as tough as a 55 gallon oil drum.

brady · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2004, 10:58:39 PM »

Thier were some diferances between the US and British Built Hispanos, the US ones suffered from reliabality issues, largely do to how they were made, specificaly US tolerances differed (a bit slopy) and resulted in weapons that tended to jam, in fact they were so problematic that drastic meashures had to be taken to inshure their operation. In some instances I beleave P38's they were often removed, in F4U-IC's and the Helldive they had to superlube the ammo to make them work, and I beleave they still had issues after that had been done.

Karnak · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2004, 11:06:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by brady
Thier were some diferances between the US and British Built Hispanos, the US ones suffered from reliabality issues, largely do to how they were made, specificaly US tolerances differed (a bit slopy) and resulted in weapons that tended to jam, in fact they were so problematic that drastic meashures had to be taken to inshure their operation. In some instances I beleave P38's they were often removed, in F4U-IC's and the Helldive they had to superlube the ammo to make them work, and I beleave they still had issues after that had been done.

That is true, but only because they (A) disregarded the British solution to shorten (or was it lengthen?) the breach by a couple of milimeters and (B) had the idiocy to manufacture it to artillery tolerences becaus e it was a "cannon" and therefore "aretillery".

Otherwise it was the same gun.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2004, 12:00:55 AM »

None of the P-38 pilots I know had any real complaints with the 20 MM, other than it would have been nice to have more ammo. None of them ever said they had the 20 MM taken out either. There are however reports of P-38's having the 20 MM removed and multiple M2 50 BMG's added.

On a sadder note, Mr Roy is not nearly so well as he looked in that video. He was not very well at all last year when I spoke with him. He is a wonderful man who dearly loves that plane with all his heart. He absolutely lives to have people see his baby.

Karnak · « **Reply #13 on:** September 23, 2004, 12:04:40 AM »

I am sorry to hear about Mr Roy. I hope that he feels better soon.

Ring · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2004, 12:05:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Yes I have and it wasn't any more impressive. The little thing they'd built was just some aluminium wraped around a couple of wooden blocks. Not nearly as tough as a 55 gallon oil drum.

that was a test i made my self with my guns and HE =)

http://www.axishq.wwiionline.com/~ring/info/ammo/wing-test.wmv