This kind of data could be found only in LW archives... Could you post some quoting from that document ?
Data is from the USAAF. Not the LW. Buy the book.
So... No direct data. Only guesses.
Again, It is USAAF data.
Crumpp says:
Do you understand that you are saying the Jagdwaffe was completely destroyed every month on the Western Front?
Voodoo says:
You are absolutely correct. Dont forget that losses were replaced by newly produced pilots/planes.
The Luftwaffe was NOT 80 percent destroyed for 6 months in a row. You understand that there would be no such thing as a Luftwaffe veteran at those odds?
The USAAF Daylight bombing campaign took the highest rate of casualties of any branch of Service in US History. They Averaged about a 3-4 percent casualty rate at it's worst. This means by the time a guy finished 25 missions; he had a 75-100 percent chance of becoming a casualty. 3 out of 4 men who flew in 1943 became casualties.
Luftwaffe pilots flew until the war ended or they got killed. Many of them have thousands of missions. That is 40 tours in the USAAF.
So I should trust bomber gunners claims...
Totally different situation Voodoo. Those gunners made those claims in good faith. Have you ever fired a .50 cal in a flex mount at a target you see for a few seconds? Ever time a WWII fighter gunned it's engine, the exhaust blew out a puff of black smoke. Whenever the fighters shot it's weapons, the brass would come flying out the bottom and plumes of smoke off the muzzles. I am sure it was easy to mistake the smoke and falling debris for a hit.
And such a bad ratio means that LW had problems with the ability to direct its power into desired place.
1. We are only talking a handful of times the Luftwaffe was able to launch in force. You seem to think the Luftwaffe was launching 400 fighters a mission. It was not.
2. Yes they certainly did have a problem making contact with the bomber stream.
a. They had to fight through the Fighter Screen to get at the bombers. Fighters that had the advantage of both numbers and altitude in most engagements. If they made contact. they had to fight their way out as well. Interceptions were made with a USAAF fighter on their six.
b. The Luftwaffe abbreviated pilot training was beginning to tell. The post-43 pilots were not instrument rated and could barely fly the plane. They took an almost 50 percent casualty rate to accidents! If the weather was cloudy chances are the Gruppe would not make it through the clouds intact. Scattered and unable to regroup in any strength, the Gruppe would be unable to intercept the bomber stream.
The more I understand this ratio the more meaningless it becomes...
Yeah I question your understanding of it too.
As an average there are encounters with a fewer fighters and ones with more.
In the words of Oblt. Dahl, Kommanduer JG3:
"November 1944's flying was the toughest I had been through in the whole war. The odds were 20 to 1 and as much as 30 to 1 against us. We were taking casualties everyday. Our aircrew reinforcements were short on quality as they did not receive enough training. And shortage of fuel was making itself more and more felt."
It was in December that the LW was able to launch a couple of good-sized interceptions.
Losses I have for the Western Front during this critical time period:
November = 404 A/C destroyed (total from all causes), 244 pilots killed or missing
December = 500 Killed or missing; 316 KIA from 23-31Dec. Allied bombing offensive and 136 KIA in the opening Ground Support missions of the Ardennes offensive. 35 taken prisoner, 194 wounded
650 Machines destroyed.
January 1945 - 255 casualties from Bodenplatte, 151 KIA
125 casualties for the rest of the Month, 18 KIA
680 machines destroyed.
At the end of January the Jagdwaffe reported 300 serviceable fighters. Never again was it able to offer anything but paltry resistance.
The thousands of planes the Luftwaffe destroyed in 1944 accounted for a mere 2% of the Allied Armada.
Hardly the 1000+ a month the figure of 13,000 requires even for the year of 1944.
What was the fate of the ~55000 109s and 190s? There only ~1300 servicable at wars end.
Production Numbers!
Lets see:
Turkey
Romania
Hungry
Italy
Switzerland
I am sure I missed quite few user countries.
Crumpp
