Author Topic: Better Econmy: Dems or Rebs ?  (Read 1267 times)

Offline lazs2

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Better Econmy: Dems or Rebs ?
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2004, 02:58:00 PM »
Social security is fine so long as the government stays out of it?   Well.... yeah...  allmost everything is fine so long as government stays out of it.    

perhaps if social security were privatised the benifiets from it would be closer to an amount that those who pay into it could live on.    

spin it any way you like but our debt is almost entirely the result of military spending and liberal socialist democrat programs that require more and more money every year.

lazs

Offline phookat

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« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2004, 03:47:23 PM »
Raise taxes and lower spending.  That is the only responsible thing to do right now.  Clinton did it, and we had a surplus.  That was a good thing.  Reagan built up the debt on defense spending, but that was done for a good reason.  Now it is time to pay for it.

As far as the health of the economy, what matters more for that is the confidence of the people.  When people are scared they will lose their jobs, that affects consumer spending much more than raising taxes.  When people got back $300 the other year, did that boost the economy?  What's $300 to someone who might be laid off?  People say "the president doesn't matter to the economy", well I disagree.  The president can inspire confidence in the nation, or he cannot.  Look at Carter, and what the economy was like then.  Contrast that with Reagan or Clinton.

Who inspires more confidence, Bush or Kerry?

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2004, 04:02:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by phookat
Who inspires more confidence, Bush or Kerry?


^^^ joke right???

too early-  to raise taxes now would kill the economic recovery
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2004, 04:32:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
If a couple makes $100k, and the wife spends $100k, and the husband spends $50k, who is responsible for the $50k debt?


The husband ,as a married man I'm sure of this !

Offline straffo

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« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2004, 04:33:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
^^^ joke right???

too early-  to raise taxes now would kill the economic recovery


And starting a war help economy ?

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2004, 05:48:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
And starting a war help economy ?


So we should avoid protecting our homeland because of it's effect on the economy?

Now that's French logic for you.

Maybe we should have just built a Maginot Line.  That worked well.

Offline ravells

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« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2004, 05:51:18 PM »
You can get a graph for any point you want to make, these days.

Ravs

Offline phookat

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« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2004, 10:02:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
^^^ joke right???


Yeah, it's a joke.  The punch line is, "neither one".  For the moment, anyway.

Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
too early-  to raise taxes now would kill the economic recovery


I don't think so.  During a time of recession, if you lower taxes, people just put the extra money in the bank.   They don't spend it because they're worried about their jobs.  Government spending keeps the money circulating, and circulation is what gets the economy rolling again.  I think people forget that taxes and spending isn't taking money out of the economy--it is actually just the opposite, it is forcing money through the economy at a time when individuals are cutting back.  Big gov't spending is not a good thing long-term or when taken to excesses...but it's good for a recession.  

What is actually taking money out of the economy, long term, is the national debt.

Once the economy gets going, then you cut back spending--but you still keep taxes up, because we are in debt and we need to pay it off.

Phookat for Prez.  LOL.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2004, 10:15:06 PM »
that depends on how the gov spends the money it collects in taxes

I do not think more social program spending would help the economy whereas defense spending would .. if they need more, I am sure they will get - I do not want to give it away any sooner than I have to though
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Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2004, 10:58:28 PM »
me thinks phookat has a degree in ecnonimcs.
II/JG3 DGS II

Offline phookat

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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2004, 11:10:53 PM »
I would agree to the extent that defense is better than getting people hooked on welfare rolls.  Better to encourage industry than freeloading.  But a safety net (i.e. temp unemployment benefits) is needed because it reduces fear--and reducing fear is what gets us out of the hole.  Also there are other things to spend money on, such as infrastructure.  Fix up more roads, subsidize or build telecom deployments, and a lot of other things.

But the point is, you don't lower taxes during a recession.  That's the wrong move.

Offline phookat

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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2004, 11:12:06 PM »
LMAO B17 :D

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2004, 11:38:07 PM »
For all the talk about being pro-business, you'd think the Republicans would have some straightforward, simple-to-point to economic accomplishments. But they don't.

The president goes around touting a non-farm payroll number of 144,000 as job creation, when 150,000 is the replacement jobs level, so anything less than that represents an increase in unemployment.

It is the responsibility of the president of the United to States to own up to and admit that his tax cuts have utterly failed to create jobs as he promised they would, and as he claims even today that they are. This will be the only administration in our lifetimes (or our father's and mother's lifetimes) to see a net loss of jobs.

Recession is essentially a Republican-led phenomenon and relatively rare when Democrats are in the White House. The data all show this. It's not something that's really debateable. There is simply no way to slice the economic figures to show that Republican presidents don't kill growth.

There are many ways to slice the data to show that Democrats are better at managing the economy. Here's one:

Average annual GDP growth

Bush 43: 2.52%
Clinton: 3.62%
Reagan/Bush: 2.71%
Carter: 3.33%
Nixon/Ford 3.02%
Johnson 5.30%

Without exception in the past half century, growth has slowed when a Republican took over from a Democrat and speeded up when a Democrat took over from a Republican.

Bush 43 is merely the most dramatic case of a long-standing pattern.

Unemployment averages are dramatically higher under Republican presidents and personal income growth lags under GOP administrations. Deficits soar under Republicans and the Dow Jones Industrial Average underperforms

Some claim that the Bush recession isn't really Bush's fault. They throw out budget timelines, after effects of previous administrations and even say it is just a case of bad luck - you know, 9-11 and everything. But all these happened on his watch. The captain of any ship with such bad luck would be relieved of duty in the blink of an eye.

Why is the Dow down twice as much under Bush as under Carter? Stock prices have nothing whatsoever to do with budget timing - they are the purest representation of economic expectations and they show beyond a shadow of a doubt that the people who have money to bet are betting that Bush will continue to kill growth. I think a lot of investors don't believe Bush will wrap up the Iraq war and they don't believe Bush will cut spending.

Economic growth since 1945 has been markedly slower under Republican administrations than Democratic ones. It's a simple, verifiable fact. Twelve straight quarters of growth under Bush is markedly slower less than Clinton's 8 straight years of economic growth. Just as growth in the Reagan/Bush/Nixon years averaged considerably less than that under Carter/Clinton.

It is certainly possible that one president could hit a patch of bad luck. This is why it's important to look at the data going back 50 years. The odds are small that a whole series of Republican administrations got hit by bad economic luck. A much more likely explanation is that Republican presidents make bad policy decisions.

There is no doubt that tax cuts for the wealthy can increase investment faster than tax cuts for those earning $35,000 or less. The working poor don't invest too much - they're too busy trying to live month-to-month. But when the tax cuts do not spur growth or are not invested, it's time to stop them and consider the debt and deficit.

The biggest surplus in the history of the U.S. was not invested in improving the lives of Americans by this administration. The biggest surplus in history was squandered into the biggest deficit in history.

And don't forget that all that money is yours. You worked hard to earn that money to give to your government in the form of taxes. Every administration must invest it properly in the best interest of all Americans or face the consequences at the ballot box.

(I can't wait to be in one of these presidential debates about 12 years from now...)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2004, 11:44:40 PM by Rolex »

Offline Nash

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Better Econmy: Dems or Rebs ?
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2004, 11:42:09 PM »
Jesus, I like it that you're posting more Rolex.

Same as how it's great when ya get a rare Dinger post. Always interesting to read.

And I liked seeing Neubob's post... Like something real.

And Tweety's...

There's hope for this joint afterall....

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2004, 06:15:05 AM »
so the economy is immediate ..

don't think anything happens that fast .. unless you are talking about airliners into 110 story buildings in downtown Manhattan

every dem admin economic success was created by the Rep admin preceding him and has been wrung dry by the time the dem is booted from office..

sorry phoo - I'll take my money back whenever it is given to me

the gov gets all the money they need, they just need to learn to spend it wisely - they have zero accountability
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