Author Topic: Bombers - the more things change... (Read 1621 times)

Zanth · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2004, 02:42:10 PM »

No bomb s in F3 might fix some of it. I would rather they just looked at ways to restore some of the earlier conventional bombing fun.

I think greatly increasing field AAA strenth ( and position batteries farther out around the field) would be another one way. In war the AA was much more effective - Not the 88's but the real tracer shooting AA. The currently setting is really kind of a joke. (Stronger AA might have fixed the earlier fuel porking too) I am not sure but I think that is why they invented bombers in the first place?

101Pony · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2004, 02:48:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DarkHawk
I have one suggestion for dive bombing heavies. if the ROD (Rate of Decent) is greater than 200 feet per minute then the bombs will not drop from the bay.
and I like the idea that no bombs can be dropped from the F3 view.

DarkHawk Bomber Pilot
DHawk Game ID

they still can go for dive bombing from the cockpit.

but rate of decent is brilliant.

let the bombs explode in the bombs bay !!

Grimm · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2004, 02:57:14 PM »

In days of old, Bombers could drop with the laser sight and pinpoint drop targets, climbing to High Alt pretty much gauranteed you wouldnt be harrased much by fighters.

In the days of change, Bombers got a new bomb site that increased bomb drift. Many found it difficult to use. The formation option was added as well. Also around that time the ME163 was added near HQs, The new Perk Modifier gave 262s at cheap prices often. Hight Alt was no longer safe, even escorts couldnt help much against rockets and Jets.

Today most find it easier to drop from low alt and do a rough calibration or skip it all togehter and eye ball it. It seems you have about the same chance of surviving at low alt as High and you need not take the time to climb.

The answer IMHO, raise the perks on rockets and Jets, modify the bombsight to somewhere between the old and new. Keep the bomb drift and formations to encourage carpet bombing. Perhaps we would see a return of bombers at altitude and yet not be plaged by the lone guy dropping an entire field.

Zanth · « **Reply #18 on:** October 20, 2004, 03:09:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 101Pony
they still can go for dive bombing from the cockpit.

but rate of decent is brilliant.
let the bombs explode in the bombs bay !!

I was kind of on purpose not mentioning that, but yeah they can do it pretty well.

Some bombers like B26 and 234 (the art is missing a bomb aiming point) and Ju88 were dive bombers too though. That is why I was thinking more lately of increased field defense - I don't know just an idea - might through force of evolution encourage more real level bombing.

Pongo · « **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2004, 03:23:38 PM »

no bombing from F3 view
REALISTIC G LIMITS ON BOMBERS ESPECIALLY WITH A LOAD
give the laser sight to single bombers.

Karnak · « **Reply #20 on:** October 20, 2004, 03:30:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
no bombing from F3 view
REALISTIC G LIMITS ON BOMBERS ESPECIALLY WITH A LOAD
give the laser sight to single bombers.

Replace "give the laser sight to single bombers" with "realistic bomb bay physical drop limitations" and I'dd agree 100%.

Also no bombing from the pilot's position unless it is a torpedo on the Ki-67. The Ju88A-4 would be exempt from the pilot position limitation.

Wurger · « **Reply #21 on:** October 20, 2004, 03:41:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DarkHawk
I have one suggestion for dive bombing heavies. if the ROD (Rate of Decent) is greater than 200 feet per minute then the bombs will not drop from the bay.
and I like the idea that no bombs can be dropped from the F3 view.

DarkHawk Bomber Pilot
DHawk Game ID

Brilliant! (in the Guiness commercial voice)

both excellent ideas that would solve a big part of the problem.

Bazi

Raider179 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 20, 2004, 03:44:39 PM »

Bombers are easy targets at any altitude. It just depends on whether you have alt and E to make use of. I guarantee you fly up the six of some buffs you will more than likely go down. I think this is very realistic and should not be changed. Buffs should have lots of guns and be able to kill you, but only if you dont use advantages of speed and manueverability to kill them. Low level bombers are not really an issue. Its dive bombing..simple fix would be a dive angle limiter. Bombs wont drop if above so many degrees...

I have personally ruined many a base in low level bombers while "defenders" are all operating directly over the base and no one is even trying to intercept incoming buffs until they get within about 30 secs of the base. I dont agree with the base setup basically. Things should be spread around. All 3 fighter hangers should not be in a row on small fields for example.

Watch for base flashing. Good sign a NOE raid is IB. Have had many a good time when I saw a base flash and nothing on dar and just upped something with some cannon to ruin their day.

anyway just my thoughts

Alpo · « **Reply #23 on:** October 20, 2004, 03:54:17 PM »

Give us the precision bomb sight and formations, and I can almost guarantee you will hear cries/whines of "no fighter hangers" a lot more. With a pair of B17s with the precision sight at 15-20k, it was nothing to close a small field.

It's not that tough with a single formation and calibration now, it's just most people are looking for the quick, immediate gratification of a low alt run. Some people still bomb from altitude as if they still have the precision sight anyway. You can see when they drop in three bomb sticks. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't... that's the fun/frustation of calibrating. I increased the number in my salvo just to handle the spread.

Take away formations, you lose a lot of the pucker factor when attacking buffs. When flying a formation, I honestly don't mind being attacked by a decent pilot who uses slashing attacks from all angles. On the same lines, I LOVE the guy who flys up my six all by himself as I watch the distance countdown.

I've said it before... bomb drop should be from a level platform (high or low) unless the plane was designed for dive bombing. If you come in low, you should encounter a defensive perimeter which would basically shred a slow moving formation BUT the same defense would have trouble against faster moving craft. These defenses would basically have to be cleared or avoided to allow for a low alt bomber attack. Even if the ack is tuned down to not do a lot of damage, it would alert you of the low alt raid a little sooner.

Gloves · « **Reply #24 on:** October 20, 2004, 04:12:18 PM »

I've found some interesting material on the Navy using PB4Y's (a variant of the Liberator) in low level attacks. These birds flew alone in the Pacific.

Here are a couple of the sites if anyone is interested:

http://vpb_102.tripod.com/information/vpb102_action_report-2.html?

http://alanc.carey.freeservers.com/custom.html

Both refer to low level bombing. Apparently the tactic was actually used and by individual aircraft at that.

In relation to AH, I would say that if a person ups a formation, they have to use the bombardier position to drop, which would require calibration. If in single ship formation, they can drop from the pilot's seat and eyeball it in. If you want to take away the ability to drop from the F3 mode, that's fine. But I think you will find that people will adapt pretty quickly and be able to hit their target at will.

Just my .02's.

Glove

Mak333 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 20, 2004, 04:28:31 PM »

Solution: Perk the extra two bombers that make the formation - bound to see alot less.

Alpo · « **Reply #26 on:** October 20, 2004, 04:38:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gloves

Here are a couple of the sites if anyone is interested:

http://vpb_102.tripod.com/information/vpb102_action_report-2.html?

Forget the low alt bombing stuff... I want the Air-to-Air phosphorus bombs the Japanese were using on the PBYs!

rod367th · « **Reply #27 on:** October 20, 2004, 04:56:49 PM »

LOL LETs make everyone play my way.

Guys complained fields to far apart for fighters but want bombers to spend 1hr to get to alt.

Guys complain cv ack needs to be killable, Now 110's can sink cv's

Guys whined about HQ raids so now have hq is dumb because only time its hit is when teams r loopsided and 1 team about to be reset. (163's to cheap)

Only IDEA I like is Cooley's idea of 5" manned guns. This will not be accepted because of those of you get kills mostly vulching would hate it. 2 5" guns at a base and 2 at a town would stop lowlevel bombruns and guys who go to base, kill ack and just vulch with no intensuions of taking said base. Gvs couldn't take a town untill 5" dead so no more flaks runnng into town with no fear when numbers can't support big map ( alot will up gv and soon as someone ups to defend leave to next undefended base)

This could be done real fast i think just make existing 88's manable or add 5's

MOSQ · « **Reply #28 on:** October 20, 2004, 05:25:18 PM »

Two mannable 5" guns on each field would end the low level buff attacks. It would make the initial JABO strike a must to take them out. And the jabos better be darn careful too.

With the hills and trees we have now, Panzers could probably get close enough to take them out, but they would definately be a threat to the Panzers too.

I like this idea. Maybe HTC could implement on a map we run for a week or two so we could see how it works out.

Zanth · « **Reply #29 on:** October 21, 2004, 09:23:54 AM »

I did some " normal" buff runs from alt since my original post. God was brutally boring and with mixed target results to top it off. The calibration thing requires a perfectly steady stick and hand, I don't have either anymore.

Jabo is decidedly easier and more effective, a single 110 can totally strip a field with plenty of ammo left over. A 190 can take out the troops radar at several fields in 15 minutes. I took out radar and troops at a base in a 262 without a single ping. It doesn't surprise me the clouds are lacking bombers like the old days. The time investment/ return equation just equals too big a boredom factor.

Whatever the fix - it is someone else's job to reinvent the wheel again. I used to love bombing way back when, but those days are behind me. For today's nickle it's back to jabo etc for me.