Author Topic: Why the CT blows chunks...  (Read 6027 times)

Offline plank

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2004, 06:33:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
CT has good nights,,,,CT has bad nights. No body I know ever gets laid every night.:)


I get laid every night! Oh wait, you mean with another person?

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2004, 07:55:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
Star...

30 total is barely enough to get interesting...



I think you missed the point.  Everyone has different ideas of what it should be, and for the most part I find nothing wrong with your statements of what YOU think it should be.  Because it usually is like you say you want it to be.  Only with less people.  Not every night no.  30 may be barely interesting to you, its crowded to me.  Only on a bigger map like the BoB or maybe even FinRus where we can comfortably fight on two fronts at the same time.  The rest just arent conducive to large numbers of people at once.  And personally, I like it that way.  If it grows, certainly I'll still be there.  And I'll adjust.  But I'd be just as happy if it didnt.  I personally think they should have MORE arenas, of varying types.  But then others have asked for that too and been shot down.  

Thanks.

SA2

Offline humble

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2004, 08:00:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mister Fork
- Guess you have never flown in Warbirds... :)

Humble, help us understand.  I'm a Customer Service Manager and in hearing of your concerns, I still have no idea what you expect from the CT so we can at least address what you want us, as CT admins, to do.  

I've had people screaming at my staff blue in the face on what terrible service they get when all they wanted was their computer to work.  Not a big request IMHO.  It should work, but until you tell us on what you expect from the CT theatre, not a whole lot I can do to engage you.   If the CT ain't workin, tell me how it should work.  Complaining is just that, a complaint. I wanna hear how it should work...

I'm all ears humble, tell me what you expect from the arena and I'll answer in order.

Fork, your friendly neighbourhood CT admin.


Fair question...

I'll try and give you an answer...

CT stands for Combat Theater if I'm not mistaken. Combat here really means air combat in my mind. Your using historically correct plane sets and maps (as much as possible) to facilitate a "higher" level of immersion and game play....great theory...

what you have as a rule is a small group of players who often abuse and undermine your goals...tell me how often is the CT porked and needs to be reset???

When you have 22 players logged on and 10 if not all 12 are basically in a single horde you have a situation as bad or worse as anything in the MA. When "new blood" shows up its invariably gangbanged and insulted...thats not coming from me...you can find numerous posts that illustrate that here. Currently CT numbers are usually 3-5% of total logged on players at best....theres a reason for it. Now, to me this is a relatively new situation (meaning 12 to 18 months)....the CT used to be a blast to fly in and a great place to learn. Based on what I saw the last few times I logged in its not anymore...

As far as I'm concerned the Admins do a great job, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for some of the individuals who fly the CT. The problem lies both in numbers and attitude. Greater numbers will help create better game play...simply by eliminating the easy gangbang BS thats prevelent (again just read previous posts). As for attitude obviously I guess this is now the accepted norm...

I have no clue how any of the admins can address the issue...but I'll bet you dollars to donuts they take a hard look at the CT once TOD comes out....

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2004, 08:09:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by plank
Wow.

I haven't heard so many generalistic remarks about a group of people since the last Klan meeting I ran into while I was camping. I'm probably one of the worst sticks in the CT but I still this have little thing called 'fun'.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience but even the smacktalkers, gangbangers and vulchers never get me too down. What keeps me sane is saying to myself "What did I[/I] do wrong?" Then I realize how many things are my own fault. This may not work for you but just a suggestion.

I've met some of the best guys in the game in the CT and I mean their personality not skill level. Most of the best sticks out there will hook anyone up with a few lessons if they're asked no matter how eccentric they are. The only thing I can teach you is how to spend your time while falling like a lawn dart to the earth. :p

And rocky road ice cream now features almonds instead of walnuts, yay!


I'm simply restating what others have tried to say....in very simple straight forward language. I'm amazed that everytime someone brings up a CT issue like this it's automatically assumed to be a whine....

There are some truely great sticks in the CT...and alot more who like to think they're good. But the truth is that doesnt/shouldnt matter. It's the culture and atmosphere thats gone south....Think of it this way....not one of the top 100 sticks in the game calls the CT home....chew on that...

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2004, 08:09:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by plank
Wow.

I haven't heard so many generalistic remarks about a group of people since the last Klan meeting I ran into while I was camping. I'm probably one of the worst sticks in the CT but I still this have little thing called 'fun'.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience but even the smacktalkers, gangbangers and vulchers never get me too down. What keeps me sane is saying to myself "What did I[/I] do wrong?" Then I realize how many things are my own fault. This may not work for you but just a suggestion.

I've met some of the best guys in the game in the CT and I mean their personality not skill level. Most of the best sticks out there will hook anyone up with a few lessons if they're asked no matter how eccentric they are. The only thing I can teach you is how to spend your time while falling like a lawn dart to the earth. :p

And rocky road ice cream now features almonds instead of walnuts, yay!


I'm simply restating what others have tried to say....in very simple straight forward language. I'm amazed that everytime someone brings up a CT issue like this it's automatically assumed to be a whine....

There are some truely great sticks in the CT...and alot more who like to think they're good. But the truth is that doesnt/shouldnt matter. It's the culture and atmosphere thats gone south....Think of it this way....not one of the top 100 sticks in the game calls the CT home....chew on that...

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline plank

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2004, 08:26:35 PM »
Wasn't trying to further an arguement just passing along my tip for dealing with frustration. Other than that I can't tell you how to have fun or how to make the CT better for you. When it comes down to it it's in the hands of the players not the staff, unless someone is abusive.

You missed the most important point of my post, though:

Rocky Road ice cream no longer has walnuts! Can I get a huzzah for almonds?

Offline Urchin

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2004, 08:29:53 PM »
Humble.. I think you have unrealistic expectations, to be honest.  

The "way the game is played" is fundamentally changed from how it was when I started playing (3 years ago).  Back then, the emphasis was on getting "good" so you could win air to air fights.  The typical fight was small, 1v1s were pretty common.  So you had a culture (I suppose) where the emphasis was on 1v1 air combat, even if the "game" wasn't about 1v1 air combat.  

About a year after I started playing, AH had a population boom.  This fundamentally changed the way the game has been played.  Instead of a trickle of new players coming in one at a time, learning the "culture" and adapting to it, the newcomers changed the way the game was played (which wasn't hard, considering the number of newcomers vs the number of "vets").  Since the disparity in skill was so great between the "vets" and the newcomers, fighting in the old style simply let to frustration for the newcomers.  So their emphasis shifted from a "loner" approach to a "group" approach.  

Since the initial influx, the population growth has steadied out somewhat.  However, the "old culture" has been overwhelmed because, to be frank, everyone gets tired of the same old stuff after a while, and people quit.  So, most of the "vets" from when I began playing are gone now.  So instead of today's newcomers learning the old, individualistic way of playing, they learn the "new" way of playing.  

There is no going back, the old culture is gone.  

So in a sense, those of us that are left and dissillusioned with the "new" gameplay are tilting at windmills.  It will not change.  I'd venture to say that most people who play this game play for a year, maybe 18 months at most.  So for most people, this is the only way the game has ever been played.  

A 5,6,7, X on 1 isn't "gangbanging"... it is "getting the job done".  There is no "glory" to be had in fighting 1v1, it simply doesn't make sense.  If you see a red icon, you try to kill it.  It simply doesn't matter to your average gamer what the situation is, they just want a kill.  

So, you have three options.  You can either accept the way the game is played, not accept the way the game is played and try to shame the players into playing "your way" (which doesn't work), or not accept the way the game is played and try to have fun anyway.  

I suppose this next part will be taken as a "whine" by the new vanguard, but to be quite honest it isn't, it is just a simple assessment.  Back in the "old days", there wasn't as much "nastiness" on the open channels as there is today.  This is because, simply, there wasn't as much to be nasty about.  The main cause of "nastiness" is people who've been playing for a long time refusing to accept the way the game is played now.  Someone who kills you in a 5 on 1 expects to be told "Wonderful kill, great job".. because to them, it was a great job.  They did what they were supposed to do, they "won".  If you feel differently, you are a "poor loser", and a "whiner".  They feel they are quite justified in "putting you in your place".. they won, you lost.  It doesn't really matter how the game is won, as long as it is won.  There is a fundamental difference in the way the game is played between people who still try to hold to the "old ways", and people who don't even know (or care) what the "old ways" were.  Perhaps there is a fundamental difference in the way the "game world" is seen, I don't know.  

The CT is not some last bastion of the "old way", it is simply an arena with a limited planeset.  The game is not played any differently here.

I quit in the middle of last month, then decided to rejoin to fly in the scenario.  Of course, I then decided I didn't really want to fly in the scenario, but I've been kicking around in the MA anyway.  I have tuned to ch 200 a few times, but for the most part I stay off it.  I have nothing to say to these people, about anything.  I suppose to the extent I have any feelings at all for them, it would be contempt, and nothing else.  Of course, the vast majority of them feel the same way about me, after all, I consistantly make "dumb choices" and put myself in "bad situations" and then "whine" when I die.

There is no point in trying to get your point across to anyone who has been playing for less than ~3 years.  It makes about as much sense as me trying to have a logical conversation with a Mongolian.  

  Anyway, this is probably the longest post I've ever made on the subject.  Time for it to end.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2004, 08:32:34 PM by Urchin »

Offline Bear76

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2004, 08:35:58 PM »
Hate to break it to ya, but at least 10 of the top 100 MA pilots fly here fairly frequently.

JB 11
Jg 35
Furball
Dadrabit
Laviathan
Grunherz
Bigmax
Shane
Jamusta
JB 73

Offline Slash27

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2004, 09:09:01 PM »
You forgot TK Bear:D



Good post Urchin.

Offline Krusty

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2004, 10:05:55 PM »
If I may add?

I don't have a subscription. But I've been flying AH since just after Ah1 got out of beta. Back then I got a 2 week trial, and I tried it out. I don't know if they had CT back then but I didn't fly it. I tried the MA. I had some fun with AKNimitz and teaming up for long distance HQ raids in Lancasters. Back then such things were dangerous yet very fun. Try as I might I could not get any fighter kills. I didn't know much and the learning curce for AH was about 3-4 weeks (and I only had 2), so I did not get much fun from fighters. I *did*, however, get to join a real squadron on their training mission for some N Africa map training. I shot down a Spit from a Ju88 gun position (joined the pilot's plane).

The planning, the setting of the mission, the flying of a course, with only 3 bombers and 2 escorts, was simply mind blowing for me. It gave me a wonderful love of AH. It was my first "kill" but not a reall kill, as it was a gun positionkill.

Later I changed e-mails, got a new account (with a new 2 week trial) -- this was a long time later -- and I *did* try the CT. It was FinRus. We were mostly fighting over/near the island. I flew a few sorties with somebody from JG54 (Storch, maybe?) who suggested I contact JG54 if I wanted more training. Well my trial ran out but before then I flew exclusively in the CT. The MA was full of an idiotic, chaotic, mess of pilots al hovering around en masse waiting for the easiest kill.

In the CT I flew a 109g2, fm2, 110c4/g2, hurrII, P40, etc etc. It was MUCH more fun than the uber war "dweeb rides" that make up 95% of the MA. It was also much more concentrated. The fights were much more confined in geographic area. I met some friendly people there (as much as I hear about Storch, I never heard a bad word from him in 2 weeks. He was rather friendly).

There is where I got my first true kill. I was in a 109 and had forgone the gondolas (gasp! unheard of for a relative newbie like me at that time) and happened to get into a situation where a hurrII was looping around to kill another 109 or some LW plane. I happened to be in the right place and moved my aim, fired into the belly as the hurr pulled up and WHAM it fireballed. It was beautifull, and I still remember it today.

Ever since then the CT has been the place I wish I had a subscription to be in. Had I a sub, I'd use it for CT and SE, forgoing MA use almost entirely.

So please consider that while YOUR first impression of the CT was bad, mine was wonderful. Yours may have left a lasting impression, but mine did too. To each their own. Please don't go and start shouting that it's wrong, it's broken, it's lame, its THIS, it's THAT, or whatever you want to say. Chances are the others in there don't think it's broken (and that seems to be the case by some of the responses in this post) Make suggestions. Practical suggestions. Enjoy it. Don't over think it.

Offline 1HungLo

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2004, 11:25:40 PM »
I have had the best experience in a flight sim game in the CT.

You fly  against only the best pilots in the CT.

I am never surprised when i am shot DOwn in the CT.

When AH-1 was out i flew with the 880 guys,great bunch a guys that 880.They taught me things you can do with a plane that i woulda never found on my own.

When you get a chance to fly against the best of the best?
Why complain?

your not bein HO'd by some 2 weeker!

Your not uppin to be shot down by the Hord Mongerz!

I got 2 weeks,was broke for 3 weeks,now i,m here for the duration.I,m gonna spend lotsa time in CT.

You know if i catch one of those 10 guys listed above slippin?
And land it?
That's gonna be priceless.
:aok

Offline Eagler

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2004, 07:06:53 AM »
as I stated in another thread ,...

the best thing that could happen in CT is to disable the score/rank

2nd best thing is to disable gv's and base capture

what is happening in there now is that ppl see with the low numbers and empty arena, they can score potato into a rank impossible for them in MA .. and they are doing it - and whining when they die - even some of the best pilots in the room are guilty of this ... sad really

that is why even when the sides say they are even, they are not - you got the score dweebs milking some base, running around in GV's in some corner of the map - all in the name of a lower score

the removal of ch 1 is the biggest indicator of how bad CT has sunk...
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Offline streetstang

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2004, 07:44:28 AM »
It is amazing to me that people even care about rank in the first place. Expecially in the CT of all places. Where it was (last I was in there which was probably a year ago) a place to have fun, get into some really great fights with some really great people.

Its sad to think that this is what is becoming of it all. Unless, for the past 3 years I have just not been seeing that happen in there when it really was.

Offline humble

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2004, 09:50:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bear76
Hate to break it to ya, but at least 10 of the top 100 MA pilots fly here fairly frequently.

JB 11
Jg 35
Furball
Dadrabit
Laviathan
Grunherz
Bigmax
Shane
Jamusta
JB 73


Fly yes...reside no...Dadrabit being the 1 exception...almost never if ever see him in the MA. In truth that was an unrealistic statement... I cant know for a fact how good the "CT only" players are anymore then you have a clue what my skill level is. It was an unfair comment based on the consistant "gee you must suck" replies launched repeatedly at those who whine....considered to be withdrawn with the appropriate apology to those who might have taken offense.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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Why the CT blows chunks...
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2004, 09:53:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
as I stated in another thread ,...

the best thing that could happen in CT is to disable the score/rank

2nd best thing is to disable gv's and base capture

what is happening in there now is that ppl see with the low numbers and empty arena, they can score potato into a rank impossible for them in MA .. and they are doing it - and whining when they die - even some of the best pilots in the room are guilty of this ... sad really

that is why even when the sides say they are even, they are not - you got the score dweebs milking some base, running around in GV's in some corner of the map - all in the name of a lower score

the removal of ch 1 is the biggest indicator of how bad CT has sunk...


I agree completely....

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson