conspiracy theory on history channel..

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by lazs2
hortlund... he didn't put three rounds into a moving target in 7 seconds... he put on round into a slowly moving away from him target and then fired 2 more shots in 7 seconds one of which actually hit the target.

2 shots in 7 seconds..  one decent and one lousy.  you saying you couldn't take 2 shots in 7 seconds with a bolt action scoped rifle and hit a target that was slowly moving away from you at less than 100 yards.... hit that man sized target.... once out of two times?

[/b]

Well, its a scoped rifle, so it will take a bit longer to aquire target after each shot. First shot was the best aimed shot, and if anything is truly strange with the lone gunman theory its the fact that the first shot wasnt fatal. Second missed everything, and the third was a hit.

The seven second clock probably starts ticking at the fist shot, meaning that you have to account for recoil and bolt action movement before shot nr two.

So the sequence of events for the shooter should be
recoil, bolt action movement, re-aquire target, aim, shoot,
recoil, bolt action movement, re-aquire target, aim, shoot.

All of this by a left-handed shooter with a normal (right handed) bolt action rifle, all of this under 7 seconds.  

I doubt it. *shrug*

Wh... shoot pumkins all day.. they don't have muscles and are just sitting there but, even then... a lot of em will explode and then fall forward off the table...  tilt the table forward just slightly and they will allmost all fall forward.

you want to believe that some loony couldn't just walk on up to a good sniper position and kill one of the kennedies...  I don't think there ever was a decent kennedy but that is beside the point... What the warren commision says happened is probly about exactly like it happened.   nothing about it is impossible and nothing else has any tangible proof whatsoever.

I dunno lazs, I havent said anything about the head movement, bodies will act strange when high-speed projectiles enter them.

What I find odd with the warren-commission findings is the 3 aimed shots in under 7 seconds-part. I've used bolt-action rifles enough to know that that part is improbable as hell. Fact is, I seriously doubt that many of the guys on this message board could get off 3 shots at all with a bolt-action rifle in under 7 seconds, but thats another story.

[texace]

It's been stated before that the Carcano is a low-recoil weapon. That and the fact that the bolt was well worn from use, equalling a smooth backstroke and forestroke, woudl mean the sight picture would not move much at all once the round was fired and chambered.

Since Oswald was a Marine sniper, it's doubtful he would have moved his eye from the scope to chamber a new round like most people think he did. He probably managed to keep his target centered as he worked the bolt and compensated for the recoil. His first shot was not fatal but it went right where he aimed it. His second shot was hastly because he was nervous and jittry, and most likely his misjudged the speed of the limo and ended up shooting wide. His third shot was the one that blew Kennedy's head all over the limo, and that shot was probably just as hasty but Oswald had managed to readjust his aim. His second shot going wide was probably him assuming the limo driver was speeding up when in fact he had no idea the president was it.

I myself can fire 3 shots in 7 seconds. I can do it with a .22 and with a .30-06. I am by no means a trained shooter and there is no way I could hit a target with all three, but I can do it. It's really not that hard to do.

[SunTracker]

Ok.  Lets assume that Oswald was the lone shooter.  Who put him up to it, and why did Jack Ruby shoot him?  Also, why did so many police respond to the movie theatre call?

[rshubert]

Originally posted by SunTracker
Interesting stuff Vulcan.  In the movie "JFK", I think they show Oswald operating the bolt with his left hand.

Nevertheless, I certainly could not fire 3 aimed shots in 6.5 seconds with a bolt action rifle without at least months of practice.

Several years ago at the Second Chance combat shoot (used to be held up in Michigan) they had a little contest, to see who could duplicate the event.  Over 60 guys shot the same model as Oswald, with the same scope mounted.

Starting with a loaded carcano, I did it in 6.1 seconds, all three hits on the target at 100 yards.  I was NOT the fastest shooter there--the winner did it in about 5.5 seconds!

More than 50% of those who tried did it faster than 6.5 seconds.  Of course, most of the guys had never handled that rifle before.  The carcano is an awesome carbine--very fast to manipulate, smooth, and handy.  Oswald could easily have gotten those shots off, and made the hits he did.

[lazs2]

yup.... and that is all there is to it.   It is easily done.  

I think that people like stone are exploiting the fact that most people don't know much about firearms and are using that to play you guys like a fiddle.

michelle moore does the same thing... they feed the desires of those who see conspiracy in everything and don't really have any personal knowlege about the subject matter and then....

lie to you.

lazs

[Thrawn]

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the piece of brain/skull being on the back of the limo.  Does anyone of an explanation for that?

[lazs2]

thrawn....shoot stuff....  pieces go everywhere.   Animals, pumpkins.... even gallon jugs full of frozen water ....  it goes everywhere.

lazs

[Thrawn]

Thanks.

[Traveler]

Everyone keeps talking about three shots. That's just wrong. Fact: 4 shots were fired. FACT: Shot 1, Connelly reported hearing a rifle shot and turning in his seat to look back at the President. The first shot missed everyone in the car, struck the pavment and wounded a bystander in the leg. That's fact (Warren Commission Report)

Shot 2, struck JFK in the back, passed through him and struck Connelly ( the magic bullet). That's fact (Warren Commission Report)

Shot 3 missed everyone and struck the windsheild frame, cracking the right front windshild. That's fact (Warren Commission Report)

Shot 4 Struck JFK in the head, the fatal head shot. That's fact (Warren Commission Report)

That's 4 shots in 6.5 seconds not 3. Using a $60. bolt action rifle.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by texace
It's been stated before that the Carcano is a low-recoil weapon. That and the fact that the bolt was well worn from use, equalling a smooth backstroke and forestroke, woudl mean the sight picture would not move much at all once the round was fired and chambered.

[/b]
Im sorry, but Im gonna call BS on this one.

"Low recoil rifle that let the shooter keep the target in the scope during the recoil" LOL yeah right. He was shooting prone too remember... And the well oiled worn down mechanism just flashed through the motions like a oiled lighting...

Basically when you feel a need to construct arguments like that, then maybe you should reflect over whether you are arguing on the wrong side of the issue or not...

I myself can fire 3 shots in 7 seconds. I can do it with a .22 and with a .30-06. I am by no means a trained shooter and there is no way I could hit a target with all three, but I can do it. It's really not that hard to do.

Like I said, I honestly dont think you would be able to hit a stationary elephant at 100 meters with shots 2 and 3 and do it inside 7 seconds. This is not meant to diminish your shooting abilities or anything. But like I said, I have been using bolt action rifles fairly often for more than 15 years, and I seriously doubt it can be done.

[Reschke]

4th shot is inconclusive as not every witness that was interviewed recalled hearing 4 shots. Even if there was a fourth shot its still within the realm of possibility that LHO could have gotten off 4 shots within the time frame previously specified with that weapon.

Again it was a conspiracy to end Kennedy's life and time in office...and yes there was more than one person involved only there was a single shooter....Just my opinion and I was a former multiple shooter theory believer until I saw this show the other week.

[lazs2]

there is no credible evidence of another shooter.   There  is tons of credible, plausable and possible eveidence that oswald was the lone shooter.

It was such an easy shot that there would be no need for a risky backup shooter in any case even if there were a conspiracy.

and... I have shot a 6.5   it makes a 7x57 mauser seem like a hard kicking gun and that (7x57)is considered a womans gun...  It has a very smooth bolt besides...   flat shooting... a pretty good choice for the intended purpose.

lazs

[Pooh21]

Originally posted by Hortlund


 

Like I said, I honestly dont think you would be able to hit a stationary elephant at 100 meters with shots 2 and 3 and do it inside 7 seconds. This is not meant to diminish your shooting abilities or anything. But like I said, I have been using bolt action rifles fairly often for more than 15 years, and I seriously doubt it can be done. [/B]

1st time I ever fired a bolt action larger then a .22, was with my K98. I hit a tuna can at 30 meters and hit it again as it hit the ground 2 seconds later.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Reschke
4th shot is inconclusive as not every witness that was interviewed recalled hearing 4 shots. Even if there was a fourth shot its still within the realm of possibility that LHO could have gotten off 4 shots within the time frame previously specified with that weapon.

Again it was a conspiracy to end Kennedy's life and time in office...and yes there was more than one person involved only there was a single shooter....Just my opinion and I was a former multiple shooter theory believer until I saw this show the other week.

The total number of shots is not inconclusive.  Read the Warren Commission Report completly.  The evidence shows the number of bullet and bullet fragments recovered and accounts for 4 bullets. Shot 1 hit the pavement and struct the bystander.  Shot 2 hit JFK and Connelly, shot 3 struck the front windshield and cracked the front right windshield ( they recovered that bullet).
shot 4 was the head shot.  The Warren Commission Report one of two official government versions of the murder of JFK documents 4 shots.  The House Committee Report in 1978 found as may as 5 shots may have been fired.  Given that all the experts say that the file shows a total time of 6.5 seconds for the entire event and everyone says it takes 1.5 seconds just to work the bolt action on the rifle.  Lets see that's three complete bolt actions, at 1.5 seconds for a total of 4.5 seconds just to work the actions. that leaves a total of 2 seconds to aquire aim and fire.  Maybe that's why he was such a bad shot and only hit 50% of the time, or maybe he only fired the first shot and others fired the rest.  That was the conclusion of the House Commission Report.

[DoctorYO]

Lazs being a gun experten why does his entry wound look like a exit wound...

anyone?


Ive never seen a wound like that.. then again anything is possible right?

what type of rifle round makes a bigger wound on contact before it mushrooms... maybe the round shattered on his skull wtf.. talk about hard headed..    

Enlighten me..


Doctoryo

PS:  Kennedy is dead whats done is done ...  just the wound, dead attacker, and other evidence dont match the official story,  "E Tu Brutus"...... we are neo rome you know.. and he pissed off alot of people..