Author Topic: How do you perform a double immelman?  (Read 2149 times)

Offline dedalos

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2004, 12:06:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
depends on which spit and which 109G model, I would go with the 109 though most likely, unless spit had more E at the start in both instances

another thing to think of is instead of doing a true vertical immel, try pulling the Immel with an angle of around 70 degrees, this sometimes throws ya out of the views of the enemy ( forward up, up, back up, back) and also saves you some E........I am with Wotan on the Spiral Climb issue.....


I think we agree.  I am talking about equal states.  Only difference the plane and the pilot.  The only reason i bring it up is cause I see people all the time trying to do this.  Last night I had HURR a NIK try the spiral clime.  Well not only I had more e but was in a G10.  I think sometimes people read things here and just do them thinking one move beats another?  
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Murdr

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2004, 12:24:11 PM »
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Originally posted by FTJR
4th!!!, I can bearly get through the second.

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Originally posted by Redd
iI wouldn't get too hung up on dbl immels's and stuff like that in the MA ...
Redds comment is the point I was making in my first post.  Each merge is a fresh start.  On one hand, it is good to know what a particular series of maneuvers are called (ie double immel) and how to do it fluidly.  On the other hand, you only follow all the way through with an ACM series if the other guy stays in position for it.  In other words, you dont just do it for the sake of it, at any point your opponent may position themself where you should abandond your ACM seiries in mid stride.
Quote
Originally posted by FTJR
Ok, please, in words of one syllable or less, how "hard" do you pull.. to the edge of blacking out? Or are you more or less pulling x amount of g 's,

Here again, (at least for me) it all depends on the opponent.  I watch them and only pull hard enough to stay just inside, or in some cases if they are very aggressive, just try to stay out of the way of a snapshot, and build on my growing E advantage.

Offline Murdr

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2004, 12:46:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
A chandelle is a climbing turn



What I mentioned was a 'spiral climb'...
Or you could say a series of chandelles growing progressively tighter.  But my comment was actually directed not to you, but to the lurker.  Two different discussions going here, one in the context of merges, the other effectively on roping.  Guess each context is clear now.

Offline Wotan

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2004, 01:32:20 PM »
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Or you could say a series of chandelles growing progressively tighter.


umm no you couldn't because you aren't doing a series of anything, its one continous manuever.

I am one who brought a 'spiral' and if you classify what I meant incorrectly I will correct it. If the lurker reads 'spiral' in my reply the reads 'spiral 180' in yours it only adds to the confusion thus my clarification...

A chandelle is rather technical in how its performed, a spiral climb is not.

Quote
Here is a question, Spit chased by 109g. lets say 109 at 1k or 1.5k behind the spit. Spit starts the spiral clime. What do you think the results are going to be? Try the same with the spit chasing the 109 without any assumptions.


The 109 can make up for its larger turn radious with its higher climb angle. The combination of both will lead the spit to pull more lead at a high angle and lose its energy. What happens here is you trick the spit into thinking he can get a gun solution if he just pulls a little more.

In both AH and FB/AEP flying just the standard G-6 I do this all the time.

Now if the 109 is chasing the spit the spit can turn tighter to begin with so a shallower climb can keep the spits energy up. The 109 has no hope of getting a gun solution. You would just level out extend a bit then go up.

But the variables are endless and there's no 1 set solution for every encounter...

Offline WldThing

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2004, 02:17:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
umm no you couldn't because you aren't doing a series of anything, its one continous manuever.

I am one who brought a 'spiral' and if you classify what I meant incorrectly I will correct it. If the lurker reads 'spiral' in my reply the reads 'spiral 180' in yours it only adds to the confusion thus my clarification...

A chandelle is rather technical in how its performed, a spiral climb is not.




 


I dont see anything technical about it..  You have pulled straight up into vertical,  you start to slowly turn,  either right or left before you run out of speed,  and thus going nose down on the enemy..   Not too hard to pull off,  basically a rope with a "cool" name..

As for the spiral climb,  which i have used alot more,  it can be succesfull once you know your opponent has more E,  it will bleed your energy really quick with all the rudder your pushing..  If you have a smart pilot following your spiral he can cut throttle for a few seconds and you can pretty much count he's gonna rip you a new one..

But for me,  double immel is way safer than either the chandelle or the spiral climb.

Offline Wotan

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2004, 02:44:39 PM »
Its not a yoyo, its a climbing course reversal.

http://www.ufly.com/lessons/max_maneuvers1.html

Offline Murdr

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2004, 04:31:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
umm no you couldn't because you aren't doing a series of anything, its one continous manuever.

Now you are being silly.  A loop is one continous maneuver, but it can be broken down into a concecutive immel and split-s if you break it into 180's.  What does your spiral climb look like when you break it into 180' turns?

Quote
I am one who brought a 'spiral' and if you classify what I meant incorrectly I will correct it. If the lurker reads 'spiral' in my reply the reads 'spiral 180' in yours it only adds to the confusion thus my clarification...

A chandelle is rather technical in how its performed, a spiral climb is not.
First of all this thread has no 'spiral' anything at all as the subject, so dont tell me who is interjecting with confusing information.  Secondly, there is more than one definition of a chandell, aerobatic-30 degree bank (need not be taken to stall speed), obstructed approach-only involves climbing 90deg.  Now here "The Chandelle, in very simple terms, is a climbing turn. That turn can range from 90 to 180 degrees." is the definition I stated in even less words.  Since everything except your "one continous manuever" is a gimmick, mabey you should start a new thread about it.

Offline Wotan

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2004, 04:44:34 PM »
My reply was directed at the the original poster.

You confused what I said and I corrected you.

A chandelle by definition is a climbing course reversal which can be used defensivle or offensivley depending on the circumstance. The sprial climb in the context I described above is not. You confused the issue with the 'spiral 180' comment and I clarified it.

If you don't like that stfu and put me on your ignore list...

Offline Murdr

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2004, 04:51:01 PM »
The thing I enjoy most about AH is making new friends :)

Offline Wotan

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2004, 04:59:08 PM »
I was never your 'friend'...

and don't expect to be any time soon...

Hals- und Beinbruch!!!

Offline nopoop

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2004, 05:21:21 PM »
Give me ten bucks and I'll be your friend.

...or

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For 2.50 ( 1.88083 Euro ) I'll just say hi when your online.

I accept paypal.

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nopoop

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Offline Murdr

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2004, 05:30:12 PM »
You should look into your rates dude.  I charge $15USD.  $5 more if I actually have to wing with them :D

Offline nopoop

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2004, 05:58:53 PM »
I have varied rates dependent on what is requested.

A listing is here:

Friend services

They are per tour pricing.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline Murdr

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2004, 06:08:20 PM »
LOL

Offline FTJR

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How do you perform a double immelman?
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2004, 06:17:35 PM »
Thanks for the replies, it has been pretty educational.
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