Author Topic: How do you perform a double immelman? (Read 2153 times)

Wotan · « **Reply #60 on:** November 28, 2004, 03:45:00 AM »

Co-e at about d700-600 or so I would start a wide circle with a shallow climb inorder to suck the spit in and slowly tighten the turn and the climb angle all the time watching the spit over my shoulder.

You want him to commit to you and leave him thinking if I only pull a little more I will get him.

Once you see his wing wobble you can roll over and drop back on him because he will either stall or roll out of the turn and try to get away.

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It's a useless move.

Who cares?

You didn't know what it was in your last post. I told you...

Urchin · « **Reply #61 on:** November 28, 2004, 08:58:37 AM »

Well, I'm not really a dedicated 109 pilot anymore.. but when I used to fly I typically wouldn't actually just go into a "spiral climb".

If there was a Spit going the same speed as any 109, the Spit is going to do fine in the vertical. I'd really level out and get your speed up to ~350 or so, then pull into a low-G (3ish) immelman. If the Spit "cuts the corner" so to speak, you can do a couple things. If he is headed right at you, I'd recommend getting a little wiggle room by getting off to one side of him and pulling up into another immelman. If he has a shot, you may want to go into a spiral instead, but you still want to go vertical.

If you just pull up into any kind of vertical move with a spit closer than about 2k, odds are you are going to die if he is co alt with you and close to your speed. He doesn't have to actually be able to get as high as you, he just needs to get within ~600 yards of your motionless plane and have some kind of control.

dedalos · « **Reply #62 on:** November 29, 2004, 08:40:42 AM »

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Originally posted by Howitzer
I think this thread has been pretty informative. I especially like that reference to a 109 fighting a spit. I honestly think both maneuvers have their place in the MA (double immelman and spiral climb or whatever term you guys have agreed on), my question would be, since I really don't fly many 109s presently, is:

You are in a G10 and are being pursued by a spit (lets just say its either a 5 or a 9 because in the game you won't know which) you both are at the same alt, lets say 5k, and your speeds from what you can tell are pretty equal at 275. So if you are in the 109 and you want to try a spiral climb like wotan suggests at what point do you start the manuever in terms of how close the spit gets to you? Seems to me if you were to start when he is at d1000+, while you are in your turn he'd be able to close the distance and get a decent snap shot at you. But then again if he gets anywhere near d600, most of these guys will start blasting away at anything in the air, and you can't really rule out a lucky shot.

Seems I am just missing the "feel" for this maneuver... anyone have any thoughts on this one?

Exactly, same speed at d1000 and you start spiraling the 109 you are dead. AT best you will get oil damage or a pilot wound. That shorty is over. Unless you have the better turning plane, turning with the bad guy 1000 behind you will most likely result in death.

So, if you are D1K and at the same speed with the spit, start a 1K or 2K clime. That will slow him down. Once the distance starts growing stipen your clime. What I do at that point is waching what he does. If he tries to follow I keep climing and stipening the clime. There will come a point that the spit will either give up (now you can start the fight again), will eventually stall, or you will be able to loop over and drop on him.

(Excluding the 38) Spiral climb when you have the better climbing plane, gives away your advantage and most likelly will get you killed. Fighting is simple really, once you are able to estimate accuratly the other guys e state. Thats the only hard part. Once you know he is coalt and co e, its easy. You are in a g10. There is only one thing g10 is the best at. Use it. Straight shalow climb and stipen slowlly. That move does not have a cool name though.

dedalos · « **Reply #63 on:** November 29, 2004, 08:49:58 AM »

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Originally posted by Wotan
Co-e at about d700-600 or so I would start a wide circle with a shallow climb inorder to suck the spit in and slowly tighten the turn and the climb angle all the time watching the spit over my shoulder.

You want him to commit to you and leave him thinking if I only pull a little more I will get him.

Given net lag and hizookas, you just died. Not to mention that the spit will be able to tighten the turn better than you.

In anycase, anyplane co-e at d600 on your six and its time for tea in the tower most of the time.

Wotan · « **Reply #64 on:** November 29, 2004, 09:55:09 AM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
Given net lag and hizookas, you just died. Not to mention that the spit will be able to tighten the turn better than you.

In anycase, anyplane co-e at d600 on your six and its time for tea in the tower most of the time.

Nonsense...

Wotan · « **Reply #65 on:** November 29, 2004, 10:08:59 AM »

Last time a played AH for more then just a quick 1 tour 're-trial' was as Batz..

Flying the G-6 never above 10k, always in the fur never running using that 'spiral' just like I said above:

The G-6 can barely out climb anything, its top speed is well below 400 under 10k, almost all planes can out turn it.

I only flew with the 3cm, no gondolas..

Fly how you want but don't tell me whats what.

I am not posting the above image just to show 'scores'. Urchin's 10 times better then me, so is Wildthing but don't make blanket statements as if they apply to every one.

My last 're-trial' of AH was in tour 53 (returned as wotan). I mostly flew the A8 with ex-squaddies but spent some time in the G-6 and everything was still the same.

dedalos · « **Reply #66 on:** November 29, 2004, 12:05:53 PM »

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Originally posted by Wotan

Flying the G-6 never above 10k, always in the fur never running using that 'spiral' just like I said above:

Good for you. No one said you weren't. Now, assuming I understand the spiral (and as a noob I probably cannot grasp the concept) you will be kind of slow as you reach the top. In a fur, thats one of the best ways to die. Then again, a fur to you maybe a lot of red and green at 1K and you comming in at 3K at 400mph trying to get someone to follow up.

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The G-6 can barely out climb anything, its top speed is well below 400 under 10k, almost all planes can out turn it.

So, co alt and e, at d600 and the better climbin/better turning plane loses because you do a spiral. Thats great !!! Good thing the Germans did not figure that out cause my German is a little weak.

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Fly how you want but don't tell me whats what.

Got it. Only you can tell us what's what. I am not telling you whats what. I am saing that if you turn that not good turner/climer plane at d600 against any noob with cannons, you are dead. 50s probably have already removed parts from your plane beginning at 800. Again, I am talking about equal states of e. Also, because of net lag, when you see 600, the bad guy could be seing 400 and hit sprites on your plane.

Now, take your pills and relax. Maybe, do a spiral or two. It was just an opinion

WldThing · « **Reply #67 on:** November 29, 2004, 12:32:01 PM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
Good for you. No one said you weren't. Now, assuming I understand the spiral (and as a noob I probably cannot grasp the concept) you will be kind of slow as you reach the top. In a fur, thats one of the best ways to die. Then again, a fur to you maybe a lot of red and green at 1K and you comming in at 3K at 400mph trying to get someone to follow up.

Yeah i sort of have to agree here with Dedalos.. I wonder what kind of furballs those were...

Flying such a tedious plane too..

slimm50 · « **Reply #68 on:** November 29, 2004, 12:53:08 PM »

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Originally posted by RedDg
Thanks, I'll put this to good use in the jug immediately.

Wait I already know that one. It's where my prop transforms into a roto-tiller.

HAH! You guys are soooo limited. Why, I can do that one in ANY plane in AH!:p

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #69 on:** November 29, 2004, 02:35:09 PM »

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Originally posted by Wotan
Once you see his wing wobble you can roll over and drop back on him because he will either stall or roll out of the turn and try to get away.

One of my favorite moves against wannabe ropers is to fake stalling out by "wobbling" my wings on purpose even though I'm over 200mph. Almost all of them will, at that point, roll over and come down for the easy rope kill. Or so they think.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Wotan · « **Reply #70 on:** November 29, 2004, 02:53:52 PM »

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It was just an opinion

Here's what you said as it was a fact:

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you just died.

You may die tooling around in an La7 but it doesn't happen to me that way...

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I wonder what kind of furballs those were...

The ones where you don't toggle your eng on/off...

Lotsa folks have flown with me in this game, Urchin has, we were squaddies for years. Maybe he will tell you...

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One of my favorite moves against wannabe ropers is to fake stalling out by "wobbling" my wings on purpose even though I'm over 200mph. Almost all of them will, at that point, roll over and come down for the easy rope kill. Or so they think.

I have been caught by that few times. Drex got me in the CT one time in an F6F I was in niki. I came down fast on him and to my surpirse he killed me.

I asked him 'how did you have that e for that...

He said I fooled you...

WldThing · « **Reply #71 on:** November 29, 2004, 08:27:14 PM »

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Originally posted by Wotan

The ones where you don't toggle your eng on/off...

O those!! I prefer to call em "Hit and Run" furballs.. You know the ones that mostly consist of higher cons trying to cherry pick me a new a-hole..

Wotan · « **Reply #72 on:** November 29, 2004, 08:33:27 PM »

No, I meant the ones where you don't have time to think about the 'ole on/off switch...

WldThing · « **Reply #73 on:** November 29, 2004, 09:45:28 PM »

Sure thing chief!

dedalos · « **Reply #74 on:** November 30, 2004, 11:27:35 AM »

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Originally posted by Wotan

You may die tooling around in an La7 but it doesn't happen to me that way...

Oh no, tell me you did not look at my stats. I've been busted. Now every one knows I have been in an LA7. Now I don't have any credibility what so ever any more.

The fact that I have been in an LA7 makes your statements correct. You must know whats what because I have been in an LA7. Did you know that I have flown 262s also? That should make you an even better pilot.

Going to the MA now to get 2 kills in a 110 and land them. Then, I will post the image of the land message here. After that, I will know whats what and you will be wrong