Author Topic: Gun Facts  (Read 994 times)

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9897
Gun Facts
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2004, 10:00:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Beet1e? :

Myth: Britain has strict gun control and a low crime rate
Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of
crime – especially violent crime – has risen.

Fact: Street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was
up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes are up 14%.


Biased  facts. Whats the numbers per capita. These statistics only use percentages because they look the best. If you use the per capita ratios the US looks absolutel f**ked for guncrimes.

IIRC there was a crime drop in some offences in the later 2000s for Britain, Australia, and NZ. Hence you find these figures specifically identify years like 2001 but exclude figures like 2003. Or select specific crimes like street robberies, when house burglaries might have dropped.

I bet you I could pull those same reports and find stats that work the other way just as easily.

Offline Airhead

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3369
      • http://www.ouchytheclown.com
Gun Facts
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2004, 11:25:27 PM »
Vulcan, the crime stat that jumped out at me when comparing US and GB crime rates is the number of residential burgularies in the UK- it's about three times our rate in the US.

Burgulars are emboldened in the UK because they are confident the most they might be greeted with is a cricket bat; conversely, Lazs owning a gun keeps burgulars "honest", so I have less a chance of my home being burgled, rather I choose to own firearms or not.

Offline Bluedog

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
Gun Facts
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2004, 11:38:58 PM »
Same thing in Australia, gun crimes may be slightly down on pre-ban levels, but home invasion and burglary sure isnt.

Offline NUKE

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8599
      • Arizona Greens
Gun Facts
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2004, 11:41:52 PM »
Bluedog, do you feel upset about what happened to your gun rights?

I'm not trying to be smart....just honestly feel bad for you guys and wonder if many of you feel that the gun laws are terrible and useless.

Offline Bluedog

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
Gun Facts
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2004, 12:19:20 AM »
Honestly?  Yes and No.

Yes  because I liked being able to walk into my local firearms dealer and pick up a Mini 14 or SKK or FAL.

No  because I have seen enough of the general public to know that 99.999999% of them cannot be trusted with a firearm, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near one if you value the safety of yourself, your loved ones and your property.

Most of the shooting I did was while employed by the Dept of Primary Industries on pest erradication programmes, so a lot of it was shooting at 10, 20,30 animals in a mob, from a hovering hellicopter, in that situation, a semi auto was a big plus, but I agree that for hunting purposes, if you need thirty rounds, you shouldn't be carrying a weapon.

I have a Lee Enfield jungle carbine in my gun cabinet, along with a double barrel 12 guage and an old .410, any of which are more than enough to scare the ****e out of your average home invader/burglar, and if it doesnt scare them, they are capable home defence weapons, if not ideal.

The thing is, all guns arent banned, just semi auto ones and pump action shotties, and private ownership of handguns is pretty much a matter of leave them at the club these days, but we are allowed to have guns.

So to answer your Q, yes, it makes it that I cannot legally own the firearms I most enjoy using, and no because even most of my mates, I wouldn't trust with a gun, so knowing Johnny Public is less likely to get his hands on a gun when he wants to go postal is actually quite a relief.

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Gun Facts
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2004, 03:43:30 AM »
Quote
Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime.

In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there.


It's completely incorrect.

For a start, if a crime is only recorded when there's a conviction, then the clear up rate (the percentage of crimes solved) would be 100%. It's actualy around 25%.

For murder, in 2002/2003, by the time the figures were published, 257 muder cases had resulted in a conviction. Try to find a source quoting 257 murders in England and Wales in 2003. You won't.


The only substantial difference in the way murders are recorded in the UK and US is that the US doesn't include manslaughter due to negligence, the figures for England and Wales do.

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Gun Facts
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2004, 04:07:18 AM »
Quote
Vulcan, the crime stat that jumped out at me when comparing US and GB crime rates is the number of residential burgularies in the UK- it's about three times our rate in the US.

Burgulars are emboldened in the UK because they are confident the most they might be greeted with is a cricket bat; conversely, Lazs owning a gun keeps burgulars "honest", so I have less a chance of my home being burgled, rather I choose to own firearms or not.



There is some distortion in the figures, because the US counts many burglaries where the home owner is present as robberies, not burglaries.

Offline Tony Williams

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
      • http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Gun Facts
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2004, 04:39:02 AM »
There's a thread on this very topic here: http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=autogun&msg=1517.1

Some key data published in it is this:

"Info from a Government consultation document on firearms law. The source was the Small Arms Survey Yearbook 2003:
Firearms homicide rate per 100,000 population: Europe in 2000

Lithuania 2.25
Slovakia 2.17
Estonia 1.53
Latvia 1.26
Portugal 0.84
Switzerland 0.56
Germany 0.47
Denmark 0.26
Sweden 0.20
UK 0.12

Elsewhere

Canada 0.54
New Zealand 0.47
Australia 0.31
Japan 0.03
Hong Kong 0.01

For 2000, the US Bureau of Justice reported a rate of 3.6 firearms homicides per 100,000 population in the USA; or exactly thirty times the British rate."

Now while there may be some differences in definition, thirty times is one hell of a difference to make up.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
Gun Facts
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2004, 05:27:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
Burgulars are emboldened in the UK because they are confident the most they might be greeted with is a cricket bat; conversely, Lazs owning a gun keeps burgulars "honest", so I have less a chance of my home being burgled, rather I choose to own firearms or not.
That's only part of it. You have to remember that we live under the dictatorship of President Blair, and his govt. thinks it's OK not to jail burglars. The lack of a deterrent amounts to a carte blanche to burglars to go on to commit more crimes, and for more people to enter the burglary profession in the first place. The solution would be for much tougher sentencing, but this would need more prisons to be built. President Blair feels that the money is better spent on an army of Whitehall civil servants, whose numbers now exceed the population of the city where Dowding lives.

Footnote: Despite his guns, Lazs's house has been burgled, and mine never has.


Ripsnort - read my sig text. I didn't say it, but it's my feelings entirely.

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Gun Facts
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2004, 05:33:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Footnote: Despite his guns, Lazs's house has been burgled, and mine never has.


LOL...

ooops Airhead.:p
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
Gun Facts
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2004, 05:41:02 AM »
real men use knifes and broke beer bottles!

sissy gun nuts.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Facts
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2004, 08:45:51 AM »
well beetle... nice of you to mention that my house was burgled again...

I mentioned it to you during a private conversation about my daughters drug use and subsequent recovery as a way of explaining how serious the thing was.   My house was not so much burgled as allowed to be burgled by her while I was away.

There is no measure that you could do in england for your house that would prevent a drug addict relative from stealing from you or allowing others in to do so while yu were gone.  I hope that you never have to go through it...

The truth is as airhead says... you have burglars because you make sure that they have a safe environment to thrive in.

I don't want that for here.  

and tony... you seem to be saying that the gun control in england is the reason for the low homicide rates when in fact it has not gone down at all from any of the draconian gun control laws that you have impossed.   It is a constant or slightly rising figure. as is ours....

guns have nothing to do with it except that they make criminals a little more wary and drive down crime in general.

lazs

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Gun Facts
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2004, 09:26:09 AM »
"My house was not so much burgled as allowed to be burgled by her while I was away."

Sorry lazs...didn't know.  I take back my oooops comment.
:(
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline AWMac

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9251
Gun Facts
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2004, 09:35:55 AM »
Quote
For the liberals, the DVD *is* indeed out. Its called "Bowling for Columbine" or "How I duped the left by splicing and dicing, then calling it a documentary"



Who the hell you calling a "liberal"?  :mad:

I'm a hardcore Republican you "Peta loving, Tree hugging, CanaDUHian bound Democrap"

:D

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Facts
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2004, 09:38:32 AM »
no problem curval.. I just don't want it to be missrepresented.

lazs