Author Topic: The Vertical HO (Read 678 times)

terracota · « **on:** May 04, 2001, 10:57:00 AM »

hello
anyone have some advice how I should avoid the vertical HO???????
ok when I figth a good turning plane like a spit and Im on my dhog, first I extend, gain speed and some alt, when Im about 2k from him I reverse(oblique immelman), Im over the enemy and dive to his 6, and he allways put hes nose up and met me at HO, and I usually die this way,
in my extended proces I try to gain some alt too but looks like those planes (spits, niks , zekes, etc) never lose they E and they can meet me all the way up when diving on they,
any help?, what Im doing wrong?, any film?

btw If I try to be more agresive, and start my turn before the 2k I can´t get enougth vertical turn room, to dive on him

thanks for any help

terra

Don · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2001, 11:23:00 AM »

>any help?, what Im doing wrong?, any film?

Yeah terra:

Shoot first.
Also, as you go over the top make sure you don't use flaps. Before doing the immie make sure you have enough E to get over the top w/o flaps. The flaps slow you down as you come over and make you a sitting duck. All the lower nme has to do is wait, climb up to you and shoot you in the face.

Lephturn · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2001, 11:24:00 AM »

It's a difficult situation, but you are limited in your options. One option is to watch, and if he is going to pull up, roll out of plane and zoom back up. Avoid overshooting below him, or going for the HO shot. It totally depends on E states though, if he has enough and you try this you'll die.

A better option would be not to reverse so high. Try something more like a high yoyo so you come out at his altitude but with more E, then use an energy merge from there if you have the E for it. If you aren't going too fast, a nose low reversal might even be a better choice, depending on the situation and relative plane performance.

Another option is to get more separation before you reverse. I usually try to get 2.5 to 3k depending on the situation.

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

Eagler · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2001, 01:22:00 PM »

Wait until you are 3k before reversing,wait - hanging upside a sec or two longer in your Immelman, dive just enough to get enough E to climb again, hopefully stalling out the lower plane. Never works for me but sounds good

Eagler

qts · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2001, 01:59:00 PM »

Just a thought, but are you taking account of lag?

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qts

terracota · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2001, 04:34:00 PM »

Don,
nope I dont use flaps at any moment

lephturn, Eagle
I like more the option to extend and reverse at 3k

, when you are extending you climb a little too? or just fligth level and when 3k reverse?, how you try to climb and keep the continue speed to still separate?, you use ".speed xxx"? or how you do it????, I allways try to engaging autoclimb with a speed of 315 ".speed 315" and let the plane catch some alt alone, anyhelp here?

qts,
nope and why????

thanks fpr replies
terra

btw will try to post a film maybe anyone of ya can check it

Lephturn · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2001, 06:21:00 AM »

In a D Hog, I would use one notch of flaps below 200 Mph or so if you need to reverse quickly. Just be sure to retract them at higher speeds, and only use them when you need to.

Extending with a shallow climb works versus much slower aircraft. It will depend on what you are fighting, but as long as your adversary can't climb at that speed, or can't climb as well at that speed, you will gain E on him. I would tend to use a slightly higher speed though. Generally, I'll run level until out to 2.5k or so, then climb at the bogey's maximum level speed. That will keep him close enough to be interested, but he won't gain on you.

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

aknimitz · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2001, 08:50:00 AM »

Hiyas,

Someone correct me on this if need be ... but the F4U-1D does not climb particularly well. I would guess that the Spitfire IX and N1k will climb with it. Having said that, trying to outclimb it is probably not one of your best options.

The F4U will outroll both of those planes badly. It will outdive as well as outrun. Extending 3K and then a nose-low turn conserving E is probably one of the better options at that point. AN immelman will just transfer E to the vertical, and the enemy will fly right up your gut.

I was flying with a friend in the training arena, and he told me whoever is the lower plane at the merge holds the advantage. Especially if that plane is beginning to maneuver in the vertical just at the point of merging.

Having said that, I would do a nose-low turn, building up speed, and merge beneath the enemy as he comes for the HO. He will likely be firing and not ready to maneuver. Let him fire, duck his guns, and watch. If he extends, reverse with an oblique immelman and engage. He cant outrun you, and now you are at an advantage. Use lag pursuit tactics from here and be patient.

I hope this helps!

Nimitz

terracota · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2001, 09:22:00 AM »

good

thanks for the help