Author Topic: Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?  (Read 2477 times)

Offline Guppy35

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« on: February 06, 2005, 10:06:27 PM »
I know you mentioned that Pyro might speak to this.

The reason I ask.

I have about as comprehensive a P38 library as you can find.  I've been hunting 80th FS P38Gs in the Squadron history as well as my other stuff.

More often then not I can find a P38 ID'd as a G in one book and an F or H in another.

Examples:

Corky Smith's first P38 "Dottie from Brooklyn"  ID'd as an F in one source and a G in another.

John Jones P38 "GI Annie/Li'l DeIcer"  ID'd as a G in one source and an H in another.

Ed Cragg's well known P38 "Porky II" ID'd as a G in one source and an H in another.  I think that one is an H, but you get the idea.

Lots of the Pac birds didn't have the serial left on the tail and unless you get a close up shot showing the data box under the cockpit there is really no way of knowing for sure.

I'd like to do "Dottie from Brooklyn" or "GI Annie" as I have enough photos etc to do them but I don't know what source you'd accept?

These 80th birds at least have some decent color and nose art showing.

But I don't want to put too much time in, if they aren't going to fly so to speak.

Dan/Slack
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Offline oboe

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2005, 07:12:40 AM »
Coupla thoughts here -

Is it possible to check Lockheeds or the USAF records against the aircraft's serial number to determine wether it was 'F' of 'G'?

Or maybe a book like America's 100,000 would have detail information about the change over from F to G and at what point in the serial numbers that occurred.

Finally a question.   Was it possible to field upgrade an 'F' airframe into a 'G'?   I know the differences were minor...

Offline Guppy35

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2005, 12:31:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
Coupla thoughts here -

Is it possible to check Lockheeds or the USAF records against the aircraft's serial number to determine wether it was 'F' of 'G'?

Or maybe a book like America's 100,000 would have detail information about the change over from F to G and at what point in the serial numbers that occurred.

Finally a question.   Was it possible to field upgrade an 'F' airframe into a 'G'?   I know the differences were minor...


That becomes the problem though.  The serial isn't showing on many of the Pac birds, and they were operating F, G & H's together.  Unless you have a close up shot of the data block under the cockpit, you really can't tell.

Now if it's that serious to determine if it is really a G, I suppose I could order the microfillm from the Air Force Historical Research Agency for the 8th FG and hope that they detailed it in their daily mission lists, and then connect pilot to serial number and hopefully make a more educated guess.

But if John Stanaway, who wrote the 8th FG History as well as many other 38 books, hasn't done it, or gotten it right, I'm not sure it's a lock to track down.

But it needs to be understood that the three small intake variants that were used extensively in combat were being flown together.

It wasn't like once the G arrived all the Fs were removed, or when the H arrived the G's retired.  It is clear that you'd find a pilot in an H being winged by a pilot in a G or an F, or vice versa and this was well into 44.

Dan/Slack
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Offline Skuzzy

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2005, 03:17:29 PM »
Sorry for the delay.  I'll nail down Pyro about this.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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Offline Guppy35

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2005, 05:31:13 PM »
Thanks Skuzzy

One of the early model 38s in question , Lt. Corky Smith's "Dottie from Brooklyn" in which he got his first 3 kills on the way to Ace status in his next 38 "Corky Jr"

Dan/Slack

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8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Skuzzy

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2005, 04:26:41 PM »
By the way, Pyro said he wanted to do some more research before he made a final call/post on this topic.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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Offline Guppy35

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2005, 04:31:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
By the way, Pyro said he wanted to do some more research before he made a final call/post on this topic.


Thanks Skuzzy.  I'll loan him my 38 library if it will help :)

I'd suggest the following that clearly document the F,G, H all flying together well into 44.

"And Escort of P38s-The 1st FG in WW2" by John Mullins

"Adorimini-The 82nd FG in WW2" by Steve Blake

"Attack & Conquer-The 8th FG in WW2" by John Stanaway

There are others but these show clearly that both in the MTO and Pacific that the three early 38s were going strong together from 42-44

Dan/Slack
« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 04:35:03 PM by Guppy35 »
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Delirium

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2005, 06:13:33 PM »
Dan, you should just have Pyro call you and get the info.  :)
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Offline Skuzzy

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2005, 09:37:01 PM »
Pyro would tell him he is still researching it.  No, we need to get this out in front of everyone.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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Offline Waffle

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2005, 10:08:51 PM »
My 2 cents on the subject for whats its worth.....

I think we should be limited to skinning just the birds that the game produces....

Say a year down the road - they decide to do another p38 variant..or it could even be a fw190 or anything...

So, if HTC sets precedence by not allowing a "varaible" skin - say a fw190a4 skin on a 190a5...then later on if they do add that model - they don't have to sift through the skins to find out which varient skin belongs on which variant of bird....plus it opens up a floodgate if they let a variant skin go through. "But so and so did one that wasn't a such and such model...." You catch my drift?


Also with the new models - Its very easy to do other models of the planes..performance changes, minor artwork / loadout changes.

So if there's currently a fw190A5, A8, F8, D9...
and I want to do a skin for a d13, or fw190 a3 or 4....well, just because they were close to the 190d9 or a5...doesn't make sense.

Granted - we might never see a A3 , A4or D13 in here, but then again we might with the TOD development, especially if it is going to be historically based.

Like I said - just my 2cents.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 10:11:28 PM by Waffle »

Offline oboe

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2005, 06:53:22 AM »
I like the simplicity of that argument, as it avoids misunderstandings and judgement calls on the part of HTC as to which variants to allow skins for, and the skinners will know for the most part which skins they can and can't do.

But, this solution is restrictive and inefficient, and here's why I think that:     Take for example the P-51C.    This aircraft is identical in virtually every way to the P-51B, except that it was made in a different factory and has a propeller from a different manufacturer.   So there are no differences in the physical appearance or performance of the C compared to the B.   But in order to allow some of the great 'C' skins into the game, HTC would have to duplicate the B's files and create a new default skin, increasing the game's download size.

One solution could be to change the text in the aircraft selection box for the 51B to say "P-51B/C", and allow both 'B' and 'C' skins on this model.    It stays within the spirit of allowing skins only for models HTC has specifically designated are in the game, but allows the additional skins for the C without having to duplicate the B entirely.

Regarding the P-38, the same solution could be used for the P-38F and G, and possibly even the H if Pyro decides the performance differences were minimal.   I understand the differences between the F and G were minor, but the H had higher horsepower engines (though they were restricted).

Waiting anxiously to see what Pyro says about the whole thing.   There are many great 'H' skins on hold, and I'm not sure the performance differences in the H are significant enough that it wouldn't be modelled for a long time, if ever.

Offline Delirium

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2005, 07:16:16 AM »
My personal opinion is to allow the F,G, and H to be used as they are visually difficult/impossible to differentiate between them.

From what I understand this has already occured with some of the other models.

If HTC is going to only allow skins from designated aircraft, guaranteed people are going to ask for all models to be offered. Then again, this may be a vain attempt for me to encourage HTC to put in a P38F, H, and other more unusual models. :D
Delirium
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I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline killnu

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2005, 11:03:08 AM »
so, if they allow models to be skinned that arent currently in play, but is later released, how is that affecting anything?  just shift the skins over to the correct model.  maybe im overlooking something...
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Offline Waffle

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2005, 11:43:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
so, if they allow models to be skinned that arent currently in play, but is later released, how is that affecting anything?  just shift the skins over to the correct model.  maybe im overlooking something...



Have you've seen Skuzzy in action? - trust me - it would be an issue trying to sort skins 16 months down the road.... :)

Offline Kev367th

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Skuzzy, did we ever get an official ruling on G skins?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2005, 12:19:52 PM »
From talking to Skuzzy -
They will not allow skins on a different plane if they MAY release that model in the future.
Hence the Spit 8 skins on a Mk 9 (so I guess no Spit 8 for us :( ).

Bear in mind this was for the old models, we MAY get more options later with newer models.
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