Author Topic: Lazs and other gearheads expertise is humbly requested  (Read 628 times)

Offline Steve

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Lazs and other gearheads expertise is humbly requested
« on: February 16, 2005, 12:23:43 PM »
I can turn a wrench but this one is beyond me, all opinions welcome.

Lazs and company:

I will be putting, err have it put, a 383(TPI) in my c4 in the very near future.  I intend this motor to dyno at about 400.

 I have some recommendations from the speed shop I use but would really like to hear your opinions on parts that I know little or nothing about.

Please recommend manufacturers for the  following items:  Block, crank, cam, heads (I am leaning to AFR but heard Edelbrock has some good ones).
 I already have appropriate runners and injectors, along with Flowmaster exhaust.  

What do you think about using the  original intake off my c4?

I would like to clean up the brackets, etc for my accessories.  Should I powder coat or anodize?

I welcome any input and commentary.  Thanks to any who take the time to assist me.


Steve
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Offline GtoRA2

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Lazs and other gearheads expertise is humbly requested
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2005, 12:34:46 PM »
C4=Vette?


Have you looked at the crate motor packages from Chevy?

They all come with Warranties and they have some motors that really rock.

link to crate motors from GM



Link to 383?
FastBurn 385 350CI/385HP with Aluminum Vortec Heads
# 12496769
RETAIL: $6,128.58
PRICE: $4,385.00


That page under the small block section has tons more.

Offline Steve

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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2005, 12:36:39 PM »
Yes sorry. c4= vette('86).  None of the chevy crates will work on my car.  American Speed has some nice crates that will work but I am inclined to have Arizona Speed and Marine build one. ( no shipping)
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Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2005, 12:42:30 PM »
How come the chevie crates wont work?

Offline Steve

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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2005, 12:43:47 PM »
They are all designed for 87 and up... roller cam maybe?  I'm not sure.  Spoke w/ chevy about this and confirmed.
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Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2005, 12:58:40 PM »
Hmm that stinks hehe, they have some great deals.


I am sure the guys who know lots more then I will pop in soon though.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2005, 01:15:58 PM »
I'd suggest a 406 instead. Because there is nothing better than cubic inches, and the 400 will fit where the 383 will.

A good stock Chevy 400 block will be fine, two or four bolt main. use studs to retain the heads and mains. Align hone it and and deck it for square, then bore and hone with deck plates.

I'd suggest an Eagle forged rotating assembly with SRP pistons. Alternatively, I'd suggest an Eagle 4340 crank, with their 6" I beam rod, and SRP pistons. The I beam rod is plenty good enough and will save money. If you just buy the rotating assembly (more expensive, comes with 4340 H beam rods) you can get it balanced by Eagle and save hassle and time. You can even get it internally balanced for an affordable price.

I've not been happy at all with AFR lately, although I used to use their stuff a lot. I'd suggest a Dart or Edelbrock head with a 200cc intake port. I'd suggest 2.05 intake valves and 1.625 exhausts. The better the head flows without being too big, the less cam you need to make power, so you get more torque and driveability.

You'll need to make sure the head and piston you get yield about 9.5:1 or 10:1 compression, you can run that on 93 octane with an aluminum head. You want to get there with a total deck clearance of about 0.040", for good efficiency and resistance to detonation.

I'd suggest a cam in the 218 to 244 @ 0.050 duration area, with around 110 lobe seperation angle. It will work with the computer and have acceptable idle characteristics. If you can afford it, go retrofit roller, they are the ticket. I'd like to see around .480' to .500' lift with a 1.5 rocker, and I'd use a 1.6.

I prefer true roller timing sets, not the cheap ones. And I've come to like high volume oil pumps properly blueprinted, with the bypass dumping to the pan. With an 86 car, you'll need a different oil pan to use an early block, make sure you get a Corvette pan.

Edelbrock has some nice pieces for your intake besides the runners, if you don't already have them.

I'd suggest full length headers with 1.75" diameter primaries.

The above combination will easily yield the results you desire, while keeping excellent reliability and driveability. I'd expect a very flat torque curve that exceeds 450 foot pounds at its peak, and is around 3500 RPM wide, with a nice peak HP number well in excess of 425HP. Yes, it is overbuilt with regards to forged components and preperation, but it will make the power you want easily and you will get long life and value for your dollar. I've built this basic combination with varying parts to suit the specific application.  The result is always the same, a huge smile on the customers face when he sees the dyno numbers, and an even bigger one when he feels the way the torque shoves him deep into the seat.

If you really are bent on a 383, reduce the intake runner volume to 180cc's, reduce the cam maximum to 218 degrees, and you can use the 880 late model block, with the appropriate Eagle/SRP components. The stroke is the same, so make sure you still use the 6" rod.

I prefer powdercoating to plating, because I like the clean look without chrome and billet. It's durable, affordable, and looks good.

The roller cam design has nothing to do with why Chevy doesn't suggest their crate motors. It's the emissions laws. You could use a crate motor, but then you have ZERO options, you take what they give you. The ZZ3 based engines use the Corvette head and cam from the LT1/LT4 series. You could buy one of them and modify your intake. You can even convert them to the 'hot cam' setups Chevy sells. They really are mostly a mid to late eeghties short block with a forged crank and the later Corvette heads and cam. The warranty will be void when you start tinkering.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Nwbie

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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2005, 02:17:14 PM »
Wow
After reading Savage's post, I am no longer proud being able to change my own oil :)

NwBie
Skuzzy-- "Facts are slowly becoming irrelevant in favor of the nutjob."

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2005, 02:39:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nwbie
Wow
After reading Savage's post, I am no longer proud being able to change my own oil :)

NwBie


:rofl

Hey, there's a lot of things I ain't real good at and a lot I don't know too much about. I grew up around cars, guns, welding, fabrication, explosives, and airplanes. I was forced to learn about computers because I can't afford to pay someone else.

I haven't solved any of the issues between men and women. I can only cook if there's fire involved. I'm lousy at web pages. I possess barely rudimentary skills and knowledge of chemistry and physics (if it doesn't pertain to going fast, or blowing things up, I'm lost). For all my knowledge and efforts, I'm a dismal failure at flight sims. I can't sew. Did I mention I don't understand women? I know enough of foreign languages to either embarass myself or get my prettythang kicked. I MAY be one step ahead of Tim the Toolman Taylor when it comes to working on houses and buildings. I'm not real good with most software. Did I mention I can't deal with women? I'm lousy at artistic things. I can't play the guitar or the harmonica anymore. Oh, and women are well beyond my areas of knowledge.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline koda76

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Lazs and other gearheads expertise is humbly requested
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2005, 02:53:52 PM »
Call Edlebrock and they will set you up with a complete package of your choosing....they have many to choose from.
And tell Vic..... Koda sent ya

Offline Steve

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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2005, 05:56:48 PM »
Virgil, how mush is that gonna cost me?
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Offline Steve

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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2005, 06:02:06 PM »
GTO,  I have been talking to a guy at Az Speed and Marine named Ben.  He is going to talk to the owner (Jim) to see if they can make a crate motor work. He says that I can buy a crate cheaper than they can build a comparable one.  If a crate works, I'm considering this one:

http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=1223&Category_ID=2


What do you think?
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2005, 07:07:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Virgil, how mush is that gonna cost me?


Steve, I've been selling a similar setup for around $4500 in Tennessee. I don't know what you'd pay in AZ.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2005, 07:09:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
GTO,  I have been talking to a guy at Az Speed and Marine named Ben.  He is going to talk to the owner (Jim) to see if they can make a crate motor work. He says that I can buy a crate cheaper than they can build a comparable one.  If a crate works, I'm considering this one:

http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=1223&Category_ID=2


What do you think?



That would be the one to use Steve. Be aware, however, even though the TPI can be redrilled, the ports may not line up well, since the FastBurn head uses the Vortec intake. However, Scoggin Dickey in Texas sells a Vortec style TPI intake for about $400. It is brand new, and it may be limited in availability
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline SmokinSS

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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2005, 07:17:30 PM »
Hiya Steve,

 I have been using Keith Craft Motorsports for their heads and engines here lately. If you want to change engines and are considering going to a gen 3 or gen 2 block the best advice I can give is to upgrade to a gen4. The door is just now starting to open up on the LS1 and LS6 engines, not counting the LQ series iron blocks. Here is a link to some of KCM's engines.

http://www.keithcraftmotorsports.com/our_engines_ls1.asp

 Give them a look. The only thing I can think of that would make this swap slightly difficult is having to install a different wiring harness and ECM. Painless sells a great wiring harness for the LS series engines.

http://www.painlesswiring.com/catalogframe.htm

Just a thought or two. Hope it helps a little instead of hindering.

Robert