Originally posted by Cobra412
Urchin I said that specifically because some folks seem to think that just because someone knows your in an early war bird means your screwed. I'm giving them another option since it's obvious they are worried about holding their own alone in the aircraft they chose to fly. Maybe I should cry about the same thing when someone alerts people that I'm in an area or my squad is and a group comes hunting for Mustangs. Maybe I should tell HTC that I want it changed so people don't know who killed them till after I've landed because it's unfair that I don't get to hide my identity. I mean in reality that's what these guys are asking for except for the fact it's dealing with their aircrafts model instead of the person themselves. If I could hide my identity or squads identity it would be just as fair.
I've beaten many people in the P-40E and P-40B which were flying late war birds by myself. That was regardless if they tried to BnZ or TnB me. I wasn't hidding behind an aircrafts icon hoping I'd fool someone and I didn't need a wingman either. It seems because they have the option of more than just 2 variants for a particular airframe they want to try and use it to their advantage instead of just beating them outright. They want to try and deceive their enemy so they can gain perk points and/or get a big hurrah from their buddies when they land kills in an early war bird so it boosts their egos.
It seems that it's the same thing over and over again. People want to try and game the game as much as possible opposed to just play. If you choose to fly an early war bird then that is your choice. If you can't get kills in it now because you were relying on a bluff before then don't fly it. If you flew it because you wanted to sucker people in so you could rack up your perk points (which is most likely the case for some) then now you have to earn the kills instead of relying on your bluff. If you actually flew it in the past because it was more of a "challenge" then you should have no issues with the new icon system.
Simple fact is if the con wants to fight they are going to fight whether it be in the tnb or the bnz and whether or not your an early war or late war bird. You will still have folks who will also test the waters prior to engaging so a bluff won't always work.
Basically what it comes down to is some wish to prey on either new people in the game who don't know any better or people who aren't so new and fly wrecklessly on a constant basis. If you flew the early war bird because it was a challenge (which I doubt the ones complaining do it for that reason) then you wouldn't care if they knew what plane your in. You'd fight to better yourself in that plane regardless of how the con chooses to fight you. You would lose some and you'd win some even if you were at a disadvantage because of your plane. Nothing guarantees you that a con will choose to fight you or not fight you based on the plane your flying. It also doesn't guarantee that your early war plane will be priority number one on their target list either just because it's an early war plane.
Lute you might wanna ask Wotan about that. He's the expert on who's a nub and who's a vet. I'm sure he'd be glad to give you an answer. It seems if your a vet (time on station)you know it all and if you are a nub (lack of time on station) you don't know chit.
I say do it like Sunking suggested to an extent. Since it's such a disadvantage for another player to know the plane your in give no plane icon. Give them a rook, knight or bish icon with distance and nothing else. I'm sure though that would be going too far for some and would be yet unfair again. Then their bluffs wouldn't work because they don't even have a clue as to what they are fighting until they are almost totally committed and their bluffs could backfire on them. Lets get Marseilles opinion on this. Will the real Marseille please stand up.
The P40-E is not an 'early aircraft' in the context of my point. It matches up very well with the 109F-4 (not early war either).
As I said by your replies you simply haven't got a clue and are just making things up as you go. Post your game nik so we can get an idea of 'how' and 'what' you fly.
Take a 109 E, it has neither the fuel range, nor the climb, nor the speed to do anything more then head to the fur.
The MGFF/M in AH have an effective range of around 300 yards (240 ideally). You only get 60 rounds per gun and they fire at the same time. So you want to get very close to ensure your shots count. The 7 mm are even worse. .303s (Spit 1, Hurri 1) are even worse. You wont get multiple passes because as soon as the person your attacking realizes you are in a Spit 1 or Emil and can fly it they will just run away.
So you end with limited combat time, limited effective kill range, and limited speed for closure even when diving. You get to the fight and some one looks back and sees '109E-4' and they laugh, go nose low, left spiral and then climb.
The same would happen to a Spit 1, Hurri 1, A6M2 (which has even guns; Type 99 MK1 then the 109 E) etc...
Its not hiding to get a kill, its using the confusion and uncertainty within context of that fight to your advantage given the limitations of the plane you are in. As I posted above this is 'historically accurate' and hardly 'gamey'. No one flies the 109 E-4 (or any of those other early planes I mentioned) as their plane of choice, they fly these planes when they want something different.
You throw out words like 'gamey' as if planes in real life had exact plane type icons. Look at the size and range and information provided by AH icons. Not even under the best conditions would pilots have that level of detail with just a glance like they do in AH.
We all acknowledge the limitations of monitors and computer hardware but even so the information provided by far exceeds what ever hardware limitations 'virtual pilots' face. No one has said make AH without icons but if you are going to make accusations of 'gameyness' then at least be honest. If anything exact icon type is what's 'gamey'. I think we all can acknowledge icons contribute to game play in a positive fashion. After all it would be no fun in main chasing around single pixel dots hoping to encounter a bad guy.
Since you use words like 'gamey' I think it should be pointed out, once again, that real life pilots in WW2 had no idea of the specific variant of aircraft type they were fighting. Not only did they encounter mixed variants of one type but mixed typed formations as well. This is evident is the mis-identifying of aircraft in pilot kill claims and at times when friendly aircraft attacked other friendly aircraft. I gave examples above.
You may try to sell folks some BS about what's 'gamey' or not but that has nothing to do with my point. You are just trying to rationalize your assumption that folks 'need' your advice.
You have no idea what I fly or how I fight. Maybe Urchin would tell you, after all we flew together for years.
Urchin,
I made my point clear. I agree that early war planes are rare (and I said as much several times above). My point is they may get even more rare, we will see.
