Author Topic: A question about "hit sprites"  (Read 1552 times)

Offline Urchin

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2001, 04:19:00 PM »
Actually, Mrfish, if you are as ignorant in real life as you appear to be on this board, I definately WOULD tell you to shut up.  It is a personality fault of mine, I say exactly what I mean.

Oh, by the way- please check the thread labeled "P38 damage" in the Main Board.  You don't have to post there (and I'd rather you didn't in fact), but you can read it.

My, I really must stop editing this post.  Congratulations on your superb K/D of 1.29.
Right now I'm only at 2.72, but with time I am sure I'll be just as good as you are.  You can read this however you chose to.

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

Offline mrfish

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2001, 04:26:00 PM »
well if i flew like a popsicle i'd have a better k/d too but instead i spend a lot of time trying to capture bases. let's swap addresses via personal messenge and we can set up a time for you to tell me to shut up.

Offline Lephturn

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2001, 04:38:00 PM »
Well, I don't know what I can tell you Urchin.  As a Jug driver and lover of .50 cals, I think each hit sprite is a round hitting.  That's just what I THINK, and I have no inside knowledge.  All I've got is a lot of experience and a decent knowledge of networking and computers in general.  Only HT could give you a definative answer here, but I'd bet I'm correct.  :)

Now as far as this particular case, there are a few things you need to take into consideration.  Not saying any of these were "the problem" in this case, but one or a combination of these things could have caused what you saw.

1.  You were firing both cannon and MG's.  This means you have no way of knowing how many of those flashes were cannon hits, indeed if any were.  The hit flashes look the same either way.  You can easily be hitting with only MG's.  In the LW birds especially, this would be the case unless you were exactly at 1G and the target was at your convergence point.  Dispersion means there is some spread of course, but it's quite possible, and even likely to hit only with MG's when firing both in the German iron, especially if you are pulling more than 1 G.

2.  If you get un-lucky and spread your hits around, most planes can take a lot more damage than if you concentrated it in one place.

That said, I think in this case it is likey the next point.

3.  Computers on the Internet are not a consistent medium.  Lets say for a moment that for some reason a router someplace was dumping packets at odd times.  Also there is the possibility of rubber bullets on occasion due to issues on your end.  Lets say there was an asynchronous routing issue so that packets were getting TO you fine (positional updates of the other guy, etc.) while the damage packets you were sending to the server were not getting through.  Or maybe you have a new video driver with V-synch disabled that is not "seeing" damage packets.  All kinds of possible explanations here.

The bottom line is that in the entirety of my experience, AH models gunnery very well, and I see no evidence of a problem.  Yep, there are exceptions, I've seen some weird toejam occasionally.  Nature of the computer/Internet beast.  But these strange happenings are in my experience, the exception by a large margin, not the rule.  Such events are pretty damn rare for me, and tend to occur during times of general Intenet problems such as we have seen in recent weeks.  HTC builds a product to work around and deal with these problems remarkably well, but they can't control everything.  :)

Now if you thing there is something wrong, a bug or defect causing weird behavior, the best thing is to get a buddy and test it online in the TA.  Oh... and try firing cannons only and see if you don't see less of those times when it seems like he'll never die.  ;)

Offline Urchin

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2001, 04:39:00 PM »
Oh, by the way, please head into the Airplane Forum and tell Tac to quit whining about the P38 guns.  I think he has a valid point, but I guess you don't, especially since he is asking the same thing as me but using a different plane.

And no Mr fish, I've got no interest in coming all the way across the U.S.A to tell you to shut up.  If you are ever in Maryland let me know, I'll do it then.  Of course, since you are probably 6'7'' and 267 pounds (because all the 12 year old boys on the net are) I'd be to scared to actually do it.   :rolleyes:

In any case, I'm done with you.  If we happen to meet in the MA I guess you can "prove your manliness" then by defeating me.

Offline Urchin

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2001, 04:46:00 PM »
Leph, you wouldn't happen to know how I check for V-sync, would you?  I'll poke around, it is probably in the Nvidia setup somewhere.  

I know that normally in that situation I'm firing everything I can fire at the guy- and normally one pass is enough.  That leads me to believe that either I've got great MG's or that at least SOME cannon rounds hit when I fire everything.  As to the "1G" thing, I was not pulling G's while firing, I stopped firing early in order to get out of the way.  I've hit with cannons and MG's while firing from 500 yards away at an LA7 (unless 3-4 MG hits can take a wing off an LA7 at 500 yards).  I honestly don't think the bullet drop is a huge deal as long as the target isn't more than 400 yards away (flying away from you).  On a HO I've fired the 30mm's in the 190A8 and gotten kills as far as 700 yards out- I think the fact that he is heading towards you leaves the bullet with less time to drop in HO situations.

I guess the most reasonable explanation is that I was "dropping packets"- that actually makes sense in a way.  I've got a pretty good connection though, I usually ping HTC at about 60-80 MS.  Does latency have anything to do with dropping packets, or are they totally unrelated?

Found the "V-sync" option, it is "on by default"- so thats not the problem.

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

Offline AKSWulfe

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2001, 04:49:00 PM »
Merryland, eh Urchin?

We're in the same state, want me to come across this fairy state and drop kick you to MrFish's house?    :)

Seriously though, I live in MD too.
-SW
ps: you bastard, you edited your post!!!

err EDIT: You didn't edit your post... you just posted another one really quickly!

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

Offline mrfish

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2001, 04:51:00 PM »
i sent you a private message - you should do the same.

ps - we are on the same team unless you've switched recently but i'd be happy to meet you in the da anytime.

Offline Urchin

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2001, 05:03:00 PM »
Mr Fish- I'm actually rather amused an flattered.  I'll keep the contents of your message private, as it is a "private message"- but you honestly don't come across as a man that has "a bachelors and soon a masters" in physics.  But then, I suppose in your profession you express yourself with numbers and not words.  You need to calm down, by the way.  Getting as angry as you obviously are over someone baiting you on a BBS is probably not good for your health.  

I'll drop it now, although I meant every word I said.  

And yes Swulfe, been in Maryland for quite a while now.  Live in a little ghetto named Odenton, it is about halfway between Baltimore and D.C.

Offline AKSWulfe

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2001, 05:07:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin:
And yes Swulfe, been in Maryland for quite a while now.  Live in a little ghetto named Odenton, it is about halfway between Baltimore and D.C.

Odenton... Ghetto? LOL!  ;)

Been living in Maryland for about 3 years, moved out to Deale from Wash, DC (from a real ghetto, Anacostia  ;) )

Anyways, there's a lot of guys playing AH from/around DC... would be kinda cool to have some kind of metropolitan event or something.
-SW

Offline Urchin

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2001, 05:21:00 PM »
That WOULD be awesome- I think some of the folks around Chicago are doing that.  You are right though, I've seen around 10 people that say they are in MD, we could have out own little "con" hehe.

Also- Mrfish.  Last word here from me.  I wouldn't recommend giving your address out to a random stranger on the 'Net.  You don't know a thing about me- for all you know I could be psychotic or a criminal (which, thankfully for you, I'm not).  Just a word of caution there.

Offline mrfish

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2001, 05:32:00 PM »
i don't care- i am surrounded by psychotics anyway - i live in san francisco. i'm a real live person and will stand being everything i say 'in person'. you on other hand are still an anonymous typist taking more annymous jabs. congrats!

:  ;)

Offline air_ReCoile

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2001, 02:34:00 AM »
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you are really settling in as aces high's new resident luftwhiner. good to see the whiner stigma will be stuck to those of us who fly lw birds thanks to the tireless efforts of your kind.  

     
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whatever urchin - you've chosen your path - now let's hear yet another 1500 word essay on how you lost a fight and how unfair it is.
 

     
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and why don't you post something constructive? in real life 1 bullet could damage your engine or by chance 50 could pass through and damage nothing - i notice you are never inspired from a victory only your losses- you just want to blame your losses on some invisible hand or flaw in the game. grow up and quit being a victim -
and ps - 'shut up' is a little strong language. a good rule is that you shouldn't say anything on the net that you wouldn't say in person. you definitley wouldn't want to say that to me in person.
 

   
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well if i flew like a popsicle i'd have a better k/d too but instead i spend a lot of time trying to capture bases. let's swap addresses via personal messenge and we can set up a time for you to tell me to shut up.  

   
Quote
i sent you a private message - you should do the same.
ps - we are on the same team unless you've switched recently but i'd be happy to meet you in the da anytime.
 

 
Quote
i don't care- i am surrounded by psychotics anyway - i live in san francisco. i'm a real live person and will stand being everything i say 'in person'. you on other hand are still an anonymous typist taking more annymous jabs. congrats!

Makes you kind of wonder who's the whiner in here!
Thx for the excellent contribution to this post.

Lepthurn:
Isn't the hit sprite initiated by the opponent's computer when he actualy gets hit? If so I can imagine that one would miss some hits due to computer/internet flaws, but all sprites that actually show should be hits then.
If the hit sprites are initiated by ones own computer and hit info is send to opponents computer I can imagine that some hit info gets lost due to computer/internet flaws.

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: air_ReCoile ]

Offline Guinn

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2001, 06:58:00 AM »
The guns in AH are strange at times.  Ive put so many pings on 1 planes wing in my 190 and nothing, only to find the guy can get right on my tail again.

IS this lag were talking here?  I mean, weve all seen warps, well what if there isnt a 'Warp' lag, and jsut a simple time delay lag?

Could that plane i just fired on really be jsut a few inches infront?  I see pings on my screen yeah, maybe he doesnt hear or see a ping at all?

Does very ping mean something has been damaged?  Or is a peice of damage (aileron for eg) randomly choosen to be damaged?

I dunnae how the damage model works, but sometimes it can seem a little unfair but thats prolly just me, being a 'whiner'.  

Just remember without whiners bugs never get seen or fixed.   :)

Offline Syzygyone

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2001, 12:22:00 PM »
Hey Urchin and MrFish:
 :D   :D
Please calm down the rhetoric.  It was mildly amusing in the begining but you both have escalated it too far for this forum.   If you want to flame each other, don't impose your shenanigans on the rest of us. Please go flame somewhere else!

It's a game and there is much to talk about the game instead of cheap shoting each other.
As to the lag/delay/packet issue.  I think there is some real merit as the possible culprit.  Try this out and see if you get the same results I did.  Go offline and fly a pattern of attacks at the the drones. They are easy to follow repeadtedly fromthe ded six and you can set up at a fixed distance, 300 400 or 500, whatever. Then fire away.   Get a feel for the timing of hits, what the sprites look like, etc. Use MG and then use Cannon.  (Urchin, i think you underestimate the drop issue with cannon vs. mg) Then turn kill shooter on and do the same and watch you damage read out.  Then go to the H2H arena with a buddy and do the same.  Then go to the MA and do the same.  The timing is definitely differenet over the net, and its even differnet between H2H and MA.  

Perhaps that is what is happening because it has also happened to a lot of other people.  I am upgrading to DSL next week, (cable not available in most of Metro Denver beleive it or not) and I hope to solve some of this rubber bullet issue.

Anways, as usual, Leph makes the point.  It's in the nature of the beast I fear.  Maybe someday when all the invisible machines through which our flying packets fly have 2 gig processors and 1 gig connects, this will be a thing of the past.  

Meanwhile, remember, it is a great game folks.  If you get a bad flight or two or ten, don't  take it too serious.
Have fun, Laugh a whole bunch!

Cya UP!

  :rolleyes: "Lost that bogie again!"
  :eek: "Bogie's on my six again"

Offline Guinness

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A question about "hit sprites"
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2001, 12:36:00 PM »
Great advice Syzygy!  thanks willl go test out in offline.

Im on ADSL myself, but i still get the odd bit of lag is this me lagging or jsut u 56k scum?  lol   j/k  (plz dont flame, joke)

Still get lag on DSL though, and im pretty sure that lag in the main arena doesnt jsut show up as a 'Warp' and can have smaller effects.