Vancouver Tries Free Heroin Program

[Nash]

Ooohh.... "should."

Okay.. So we are playing at fantasy now. I missed that part.

You want to pretend.

Neat.

[Siaf__csf]

Nash the world isn't ready. Therefore it's possible to use the word 'should' as in trying to bring progress to a) discussion b) methology used.

Get over it.

[Nash]

Good advice.

I'm off to work. Ciao.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Nash
Well then you didn't read my first post in this thread. Or get to the part where I said this was about crime/taxes.

"No. This has probably got a lot more to do with property crime and property taxes than anything else. They're writing the junkies off. "

My bad, sorry.  We agree then.

[DREDIOCK]

Nash,

Judging by your posts here on this subject it is obvious you are a former addict. And are the real deal and not just someone spouting off on what they think is true

  Might not mean much but you have just earned an entire new respect from me.

I at 43 years of age am finding myself loosing on average  over the last 10 years a friend every year or so for one reason or another.

I had 5 friends that became heroin addicts 3 of which I grew up with. 4 of the 5 are now dead with one last I've heard is in jail.

of those 4, 3 died either directly or indirectly because of herion.  with the remaining one being crushed to death in a car wreak.Oddlyh enough she had kicked the habit some years before.

Of the other 3.
1 I know for fact died of an OD.
the other I suspect either did or died as a result of or I suspect years of use and mixing Coke and Heroin taking a toll on his heart. He died of a heart attack at age 37 a month after being released from Rikers Island (sp?)

The third Managed to get the crap kicked out of him going into a bad area to pick up a bag.
He went to the hospital but they sent him home.
His brother found him dead 3 days later in his Apt. Turns out he died from a ruptured spleen.

This last one My wife and I tried our best to help out. Took him into our home. Fed him, Paid for his methodone treatments. and tried to keep an eye on him as best we coould.
 Unfortunately, it didnt seem to help and eventually we found out he was stealing money from us and going out and getting his fix during the times we werent around.
 So I did the best I could for him. I set him up with an inhouse clinic at a hospital my Aunt worked at Gave him a carton of butts and dropped him off there.
Unfortunately he left. and two years later he was dead

He must have had some sort of premonition it was comming as 6 months before his death he gave me all sorts of his personal items. Things he cherished most.
Including a book on Bass fishing, and a gold Jack Danials pocket watch given to him by his father.

To a man, and woman these were all good good people.
Not at all like the way they are commonly portrayed on TV  or in the movies.
These were among the kindest souls I've ever known who would do anything for you if they could even if they didnt know you.
I know of nobody that ever met or knew these people that didnt love them

I am not at all ashamed to admit I have tears welling up in my eyes now thinking about these people.

And I've found writing this rather difficult and not sure why I've said all this exept maybe I needed to vent a bit after reading your words.

As  fluff'n angry as I would get at them for their addiction I miss them alot. Greg, Eddie, Bev and Mike.
Now all I have of them ar some trinkets and memories of good times and bad to tell my kids about these people.

so to you Nash I say WTFG.
Stay the course.

Im sure that even you has people that love you;)

Be more then just a memories and stories.
The life lost isnt just for you. but is lost for everyone that knows you.

And even here. I would rather argue with you then have to remember arguing with you.

[Gunslinger]

Cobra,

I think you completly miss understood me.  I think this is an interesting disscussion but I'm not saying I support it.

As far as the 8 mill goes I was asking what if any improvments in law enforcment could be made if that money didn't go to FREE drugs.

In other words could 8 million make a better impact fighting crime as to feeding the criminals to not commit it?

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Heh Nash. Solitary confinement means the inmate is not allowed to be in contact with anyone except guards at feeding time. Period.

and if it's the guard who's supplying him?



on the big picture I don't think the program goes far enough.  legalize all drugs so the price will fall to the point where the addict only needs to steal 1 car stereo instead of 10.

people who use whatever drug they chose recreationally (much like the guy who has a glass of bourbon after work) won't have to deal with a criminal element and aren't really the big problem in this country.  they just get constantly accused of enabling the problem.

as for the true junkie.  we all know he won't be happy with his current dose and just steal less.  he'll steal the same and just get more dope, until he OD's.

while I haven't seen many statistics, I'm sure there are virtually no repeat offenders from a fatal overdose.

also, you can have all the govt sponsored propaganda you want.  show the kids the fleet cars you took from drug dealers, all painted up black with 'DARE' written across them.  and none of it will have the impact on kids drug use that dead junkies do.

[SOB]

Also, I think fantasy would indeed be the proper term for the thought that we would ever have enough solitary confinement cells to hold all of the drug offenders in the country for 30 days.

[Maverick]

Gunslinger,

I like the idea you had but I have to say it would be a mere drop in the bucket. In the US alone there are approximately 7000 seperate police jurisdictions. Dividing up 8 mil would make it pretty watered down unfortunately. The borders around the US are about as water tight as a collander. Increasing interdiction is very hard to do and hideously expensive. I dopn't have any ideas of how to solve the problem but I darn sure don't think handing out free dope is the way to do it.

[Siaf__csf]

and if it's the guard who's supplying him?

Houston, we have a problem.

[Nash]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
as for the true junkie.  we all know he won't be happy with his current dose and just steal less.  he'll steal the same and just get more dope, until he OD's.

Good point. I started at about a fouth of a quater a day. By the end I was up to 4+ quarters a day, just to be able to feel somewhat normal (stand up, basically).

I have to believe that someone took this into consideration.... or, what are they gonna do? Keep upping the dose as the tolerance increases? It's weird.

Hey DREDIOCK, great post... Thank you.

[Toad]

Hey is their any chance of ... ummm.... "free female companionship" of some really hot Vancouver babes?

I'm sort of addicted to what they can provide.  I'd even swear I was going to steal and stuff to keep up my habit.

Any chance of getting that by the city council? I might move up there.........

[SOB]

Sometimes, Toad, you are a genius.  This is one of those times.

SOB
Fat Drunk Hoser, Eh!

[mora]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf A half dozen cold turkeys should do the trick - or the invidual is a masochist.

As you seem to be an expert in this field, why dont you post some evidence about the effectiveness of "cold turkey" treatment. The last I heard it's effectiveness was around 5%.

[Siaf__csf]

Only if Toad accepts european women.

Edit: oops.. work safe not

Shame tho.