Author Topic: The War on Drugs...  (Read 2069 times)

Offline texace

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The War on Drugs...
« on: June 13, 2001, 02:28:00 AM »
Is utter crap. What is the government trying to stop? "The traffiking of drugs into this country" So? Big deal. Here's something to think about...

(Based loosly on essays written by Moby on the "Play" album)

I don't think the government has the right to police what I do to my body. If someone does something that jepordizes someone else's civil rights, fine, punish them. But why should someone be locked up for doing something that has no visible reprecussions on someone else.

     What I do to my body is my own business and I think the government should just stay the hell out.

I'll problably get flamed or told down, but I wanted to see if anyone has the same opinion.

 ;)

Offline Tuomio

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2001, 03:09:00 AM »
Yeah i know. If the DEA:s budget, which is 1,200,000,000$ would be spent on treatment of hard drug addiction, you could imagine the results of that!
Treatment with legalization of soft drugs and making hard drugs prescription drugs to hard addicts, would end almost all drug crimes which is about 90% share of all crimes made. That would also be quite cheap solution to drug issue. BTW its much more effective, than making US as secure as jails, since theres severe drug problems even in super security jails.

But hey, imagine all those unemployed cops! We wouldnt certainly want that to happen!

Offline popeye

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2001, 07:47:00 AM »
Nothing inspires citizens to relinquish their rights and money to the government like a war.  If the government doesn't happen to have a real war to fight, they just invent one.
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2001, 09:17:00 AM »
I've heard (unconfirmed) that quite a large section of prisoners in US jails are there for various forms of drug related crimes, and a good deal of them simply for using drugs. Any truth to this?

Offline miko2d

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2001, 09:23:00 AM »
Drugs, alcohol, smoking, car seatbelts - all those thigs that only endanger the user. As long as I (the taxpayer) do not have to foot the bill for treatment, I do not care what people do to themselves.

 A considerable proportion of the inmates in US prisons (around 1/3) are for drug-related crimes because the law mandates mandatory sentence for poseccion of mimiscule amounts of drugs.

 miko

Offline NHFoxtro

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2001, 09:36:00 AM »
Santa, not true at all. :rolleyes: It only happens to some movie stars and Athletes. The rest of them out of the publics eye get a slap on the wrist and small fine.   :)

Texace, I don't mind grass, but I think if that or all the drugs were leagalized to do with as you please to yourself. I think eventually it would turn into hurting someone else. It could be a family member or a close friend you got caught stealing money from because you lost your job when you dropped a pallet of sheetrock on your boss' foot because you weren't paying attention while you were snuffen a line of coke. Everything has a chain reaction. Drugs is nothing but a chain with an ancher attached to it.IMHO.   :D

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: NHFoxtro ]

Offline pugg666

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2001, 11:11:00 AM »
NHFoxtrot...

 
Quote
Texace, I don't mind grass, but I think if that or all the drugs were leagalized to do with as you please to yourself. I think eventually it would turn into hurting someone else. It could be a family member or a close friend you got caught stealing money from because you lost your job when you dropped a pallet of sheetrock on your boss' foot because you weren't paying attention while you were snuffen a line of coke. Everything has a chain reaction. Drugs is nothing but a chain with an ancher attached to it.IMHO.

same CAN be said for alcohol addiction

Offline Toad

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2001, 11:19:00 AM »
Tough subject.

I used to be pretty "anti-legalization". I think that all this "harmless" talk is partly wishful thinking. There are negative effects both personally and societally.

All that aside, I had to ask myself this question:

Is it easier for a 14-year-old to get a bottle of bourbon or a baggie of marijuana/line of coke?

I would generalize that it would be easier to get the drugs almost anywhere in the US.

Therefore, perhaps it IS time we once again abandoned the "Prohibition" experiment and put the government in charge of standardization of the product and the regulation of sales and advertising. Think of the tax revenue!  :D

"We're from the Government; we're here to help!"

Jokes aside, it is obvious that Prohibition of drugs isn't working any better than it did with alcohol.

It's probably time we "faced the facts".
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline NHFoxtro

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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2001, 11:48:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by pugg666:
NHFoxtrot...

same CAN be said for alcohol addiction

I agree, Lack of performance, late to work, call in sick Fridays and Mondays. I've been thru that as kid. Now I enjoy my cocktails on my weekends.  :D

Offline Sandman

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2001, 12:53:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NHFoxtro:
Santa, not true at all. It only happens to some movie stars and Athletes. The rest of them out of the publics eye get a slap on the wrist and small fine.     :)

Santa is absolutely correct. My sister is a corrections officer at the facility in Sonora. She estimates that between 60 and 80 percent are there on drug-related offenses.

Since the drug war began, prison business is booming. So much so, that private corporations are now the largest investors in this enterprise.

Regarding this post by Foxtrot:  
Quote
Texace, I don't mind grass, but I think if that or all the drugs were leagalized to do with as you please to yourself. I think eventually it would turn into hurting someone else.

Theft and burglary are still punishable offenses. If you commit a crime to support your habit, you SHOULD be prosecuted regardless of the legality of drug use.

[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
sand

Offline Maverick

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2001, 02:07:00 PM »
This is kind of interesting in a wilight zone kind of way.

Argument for treatment. Sounds good. Nice touchy feeley type of thing. Main problem is that the addict has to WANT treatment for it to work. Real world parallel is AA for alcohol addiction. Now if the substance was not banned by law, why SHOULD an addict want treatment? After having spoken to seveal addicts, booth under arrest and not they almost all agreed on one thing. The LIKED the feeling of being high and would do it again in almost any way they could. Only ones disagreeing were those who, like the AA patients, hit bottom and wanted to rebuild a life / family.

No victims of drug useage. Nice sounding but flawed statement. That is the same as saying there are no victims of alcohol abuse. There are thousands of people each year who pay a penalty in only one area due to alcohol abuse. That is on the roads of the US. Still better than 40% (probably closer to 60%) of fatal wrecks are "alcohol related" Like many of the other drugs out there alcohol affects the brain. Something that should be clear and functioning to operate deadly equipment in a crowded environment like an urban street / highway. Many other problems related to alcohol such as family / spousal abuse, health issues, lack of self control and violent behavior outside of the family happen due to te abuse of this legal substance.

Lets not EVEn talk about tobacco. Still legal but blamed for health problems relatede to addiction. Think about it. Who would be responsible for the problems related to addiction of other newly legalized substances. Would it be the tax payers, government or business who make /market / tax / provide the stuff that will be the subject of lawsuits over the problems related to the use / abuse of the new legal item? Please don't claim that there are no known health related problems to use of even such minor drugs as marijuanna. Over use of ANYTHING has health problems just like tobacco. Hell even artificial sweeteners have cancer inducing properties if overused.

Santa, the term drug related in regards to prison is very vague. In some cases mere possession of the drug DID result in jail time. Particularly in 3rd offens areas. However, there are many there who committed other crimes while on or searching for drugs. Burglary, assault, murder, robbery and many of these would be considered "drug related" since drugw were either part of or the motive for the actions committed. This does not exclude those who trafficed in drugs getting others to use so they could support their own habit. Starting kids young into the use of "softer" drugs insures a steady resale market. It is not uncommon to see kids even in grade school who have been exposed to or use drugs.

Current substances and newer ones are out there and are being touted as "safe" highs. Ecstacy is one that is big on the "scene" right now. I suppose you could call them new trends. They are still causing deaths due to complications, overdoses and actions taken while high. It's a big deal for kids at raves right now as it has yet to be declared a banned substance. Although that is likely to happen very soon unless it has already been done. Not too sure myself.

I have no idea, really, what shgould be done. I do know that the roads are hazardous enough right now with the impairment of alcohol alone. I have a real hard time with the concept of sharing the road with a large number of people who are using some other substance that has an effect on the brain. I aslo include legal drugs here as well. It makes no difference if the impairment is from legal or non legal substances. The results are just as harmful in traffic.

The next few years are going to be "interesting". I just hope it isn't in the same vein as the chinese curse.

I think it will all come down to a final view of personal responsibility. Are people responsible enough to "police" their own behavior. So far the record is pretty abysmal. I don't know that the "war" is winable but I truly fear the repercussions of an unconditional surrender.

Mav
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Offline mrfish

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2001, 02:19:00 PM »
was gonna post picture - never mind :)

instead the great peter tosh!

legalize it, yeah - yeha, and i will advertise it.....

[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: mrfish ]

Offline Yoj

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2001, 04:58:00 PM »
An important thing to remember is that declaring war usually causes the enemy to escalate.  The size of the profits available in big time drug dealing has greatly increased the amount of violence associated with it.  There was Cocaine use in the US back in the '50's (and well before), but it was relatively cheap, and the market was small.  Since the declaration of the War On Drugs, we have Cocaine Barons who could (and have) bought whole countries.

There is no doubt that simply repealing all of the drug laws would not solve drug problems, but fighting an expensive and totally unwinnable war has created a lot of those problems.  Another approach is needed, and decriminalizing and controlling them is at least worth a try - it can't do worse than things are now.  They could start with those, like pot, that are known to be less destructive than alcohol, and go from there.

- Yoj

[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: Yoj ]

Offline ispar

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2001, 05:21:00 PM »
I think it strongly depends upon the situation and drugs involved. As it stands, it would probably be best for drugs like weed to be legalized and government regulated. For anything like cocaine, crack, speed, ecstasy, heroin, etc, there is no way in hell I would support legalization of these things. Frankly, they scare me sh*tless.

Marijuana (sp?) is no more dangerous than alcohol; less so, on a social level. But when you move into "hard" drugs, they are far too harmful to not just the user, but those around him/her.

It's not a matter of the government controlling what you do to your body. In the long run, it has ZERO control over that. It certainly doesn't stop people from getting high, does it? It's a matter of protecting the people around you.

Offline Saintaw

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2001, 12:25:00 PM »
Well..they legalised drugs here in January (only light ones)
<looks out of the window>
...

I see nothing changed  :D

Saw
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Dirty, nasty furriner.