Author Topic: Built it, and they did not come  (Read 5796 times)

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9333
Built it, and they did not come
« on: May 25, 2005, 11:40:14 AM »
Thought this might be an appropriate time to start a debriefing on the first-ever run of a fightertown setup.

My impression:  Where were all the people who said they'd be interested in this?  I saw some of them at the beginning of last week, for one, possibly two nights.  Since then, on my watch, it's been mostly the CT regulars.  And not even all of them, because those who opposed fightertown often boycotted it.

So color me disappointed.  I wonder if some of our MA friends who thought this would be a good idea could suggest why it didn't work out?

- oldman

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
WARNING: RAMBLING AHEAD
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2005, 12:50:56 PM »
Please forgive the rambling nature of this post, I had alot of thoughts to cram in and its busy today at work, no time to really sort them out.  I hope its readable and understandable.  

****

I think it was successful enough for what it was.  A chance to furball, free of other obligations.  The problem is, thats not what we pay 15 bucks a month for.  Or at least I dont.

I want some hint of realism in my gameplay.  Or I should say, AT LEAST a hint of it.  Its nice to fuball mindlessly sometimes, to break stress or monotony, or just for the pure fun of pushing your luck.  And for that, I  think a small Furball Arena or Fightertown, would be an excellent addition to the HTC lineup.  I mean, they had room for a second MA, why not use it as such if they dont need it all the time?  With a dedicated map designed for such things, we would have it all.  A "training" arena, for new guys to go learn to fly, learn ACM, and practice what they learn anytime without the stress of scores or squads, or strat targets, or being shot down; a "dueling" arena, for setup fights between small numbers of people at a time, for specific purpose; a "furball" arena, for mindless ACM fun anytime, where guys can go to test their SA and gunnery skills in a free-for-all atmosphere; a "historical" arena, for more realistic, "historic" matchups (what I see as free form scenarios); a "special events" arena for scenarios; and a big Main Arena where we can wage war back and forth in any plane we want, and experience the entire spectrum of fighting and land grabbing at its best.

I think the Rangoon map has its limitations as a Fightertown map, and people moved on.  It was a novelty, and at first people were willing to overlook the shortcomings of the terrain to play with the new idea.  A painting is a painting, a picture is a picture.  But you put either one in the proper frame, and it becomes more attractive.  You frame something right, you can call almost anything art and sell it as such.  What I'm saying is, presentation is everything.  How it looks, how it hangs, and how it's advertised will turn a paint-by-numbers sheet into valuable art.

Alot of people put down the BBS as a means of advertising.  I admit its not the only tool.  But it IS effective.  When people are discussing an issue on the boards, interest is piqued in the game setting as well.  People test and try and poke and prod if they think it will give them something to use in a post later on or tomorrow on the BBS.  Face it, we all like being part of something bigger.  Its human nature.  Which is why the MA gets most of the numbers.  If you want to draw MA customers, you have to provide them with the feeling they are PART of something.  Thats partially why our CT numbers keep dropping, is because MA folks get the feeling the CT is a private club and they have a visitor's pass.  We have our own forum on the BBS.  We have our own "stars", whether they are famous or infamous.  And with the fading of the CT squads, we have fading of the CT numbers.  There is NEVER going to be more than a visitor mentality from regular MA folks in the CT.  What we need is not to draw more MA folks who occasionally fly the CT, but to recruit our own crowd who flys mostly in the CT and maybe sometimes in the MA.  For that, we need maps gentlemen, and we need squads.  Pure and simple.  Instead of vilifying and breaking up the JG54, we should be using them as a model (minus the grouchiness lol) to build more squads.  They fly together.  They watch each other's backs.  They prevent the stuff we gripe at them for doing from happening to their members.  Thats not bad, thats what a squad does!  We need something that captures the imagination and lets people feel they are part of something again.  We had it in AH1, we can have it again.  But running Ackinawa and BoB over and over again isnt going to get it, nor is treating every new guy that comes in for a flight like he's unwanted.  He's not.

Offline Clifra Jones

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1210
Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2005, 12:59:13 PM »
I was there for the 1st 3 days. Had a real fun time too. After that, the player count when I logged on was exactly 0. My flying time is 2000-2400 EST.

I'll put in my 2 cents as to why it failed.

1. No one knew: On the 1st night I spent about 90 minutes in there then went into the MA to fly with my squad. None of them knew about the setup. Many of them do not frequent these boards. What this tells me is that without some kind of notification as to what was going on folks just were not aware of it.

2. The general lack of interest in the CT. Thats another subject that has been beaten to death here, but it is a part of the problem.

3. A combination of 1 & 2. There is a general lack of knowledge regarding the other arenas. I have run in to many Noobs who didn't even know what the TA is all about.

Bottom line IMO is that the MA is where the action is. It's all about numbers. the TA and the DA have their purpose but you will never see 200 players in them for obvious reasons. Players log on and see that the MA has 427 players, the CT had 12, where do you suppose the average player is going to go? The SEA works because it's a planned, scheduled Special Event. People know when and where it is happening.

As much as people, myself included, would like to see things like rolling plane sets in the MA it just ain't gonna happen. We need to learn to live with that. Along with all the other things that may annoy us in the MA.

As far as I'm concerned now, 3 H2H rooms could served exactly the function this exeriment did. I flew the early war fields and there were never more than 8 people at those fields when I was on. I certainly at this time do not want to see any server resources dedicated to this idea. If the CT admins want to try it again that's cool, I will fly there if others are there also, but I'm not confident it's really worth the effort.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2005, 01:18:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
Thought this might be an appropriate time to start a debriefing on the first-ever run of a fightertown setup.

My impression:  Where were all the people who said they'd be interested in this?  I saw some of them at the beginning of last week, for one, possibly two nights.  Since then, on my watch, it's been mostly the CT regulars.  And not even all of them, because those who opposed fightertown often boycotted it.

So color me disappointed.  I wonder if some of our MA friends who thought this would be a good idea could suggest why it didn't work out?

- oldman


Lack of advertising :)

I still think it would be nice if HT and company would have one of those little pop up screens that show up when something new is added, also be used to let folks know what else is going on besides the MA.

"Now Playing" in the CT is......followed by the description.

This would also include Snapshots, special events etc.

Folks head straight for the MA without looking at what's up elsewhere and there just aren't that many who populate the boards here.

Dan/CorkyJr
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline dedalos

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8052
Re: WARNING: RAMBLING AHEAD
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2005, 01:30:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Please forgive the rambling nature of this post, I had alot of thoughts to cram in and its busy today at work, no time to really sort them out.  I hope its readable and understandable.  

****
 


You sir, must be as busy as I am :D
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17565
Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2005, 01:54:49 PM »
it missed the weekend

didn't the CT change like clockwork every friday?

has it changed yet? it is only wednesday and still has ft in there...

lack of organization, dedication and gettin the word out lately ain't helpin ct's image lately
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti FTW3 | Vive Pro | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder Pedals

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
Re: Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2005, 01:57:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
Thought this might be an appropriate time to start a debriefing on the first-ever run of a fightertown setup.

My impression:  Where were all the people who said they'd be interested in this?  I saw some of them at the beginning of last week, for one, possibly two nights.  Since then, on my watch, it's been mostly the CT regulars.  And not even all of them, because those who opposed fightertown often boycotted it.

So color me disappointed.  I wonder if some of our MA friends who thought this would be a good idea could suggest why it didn't work out?

- oldman


Didn't knew it existed.
Lack of advertisement perhaps ?

Offline Clifra Jones

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1210
Re: Re: Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2005, 02:18:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Didn't knew it existed.
Lack of advertisement perhaps ?


(in my best lawyerly voice)

Your Honor, I rest my case!

Offline wonton

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
Re: Re: Re: Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2005, 02:30:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Clifra Jones
(in my best lawyerly voice)

Your Honor, I rest my case!


I can understand not being a patron of the BBS and not knowing about it but if you frequent the boards I don't know how you could miss it.

I still think more advertisement could only have helped but those who initiated and supported the idea should have taken the time to say something in MA and get folks over there.

Personally, I'm not behind the idea, just not my style of play but I still tried it out.

Offline Shifty

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9377
      • 307th FS
Re: WARNING: RAMBLING AHEAD
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2005, 05:07:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
 What we need is not to draw more MA folks who occasionally fly the CT, but to recruit our own crowd who flys mostly in the CT and maybe sometimes in the MA.  For that, we need maps gentlemen, and we need squads.  Pure and simple.  Instead of vilifying and breaking up the JG54, we should be using them as a model (minus the grouchiness lol) to build more squads.  They fly together.  They watch each other's backs.  They prevent the stuff we gripe at them for doing from happening to their members..


Well said.  There are people that complain about squads in the CT , however when the CT was going strong........... Well for the CT:D  It was the participation of squads that was a big reason. I've been on both sides Axis, and Allieds, I was even one of the founders on JG54 , and a few other squads, Insert Sarcasm Here Bear76;)  We usually have a strong Allied line up of squads if we're lucky 1 or 2 Axis squads. If your outnumbered week after week , it's not hard to get an us against them attitude.

Some comments made about setups do come across as sarcastic, rude, or whiney, I agree. However maybe the CT staff could look at what their saying , not how their saying it. I know that may be hard when you've worked to get a setup on-line and people are throwing turdballs at it. Some of that does come with the job though. In the same light when guys have a complaint , try to not to assume the CT staff has it out for you or your squad personally.

The CT is better with a healthy , well skilled Axis squad in it . It would be even better with 2 or 3 of them. The C.O. of the 487th RO487 has dedicated this squad to fly Japanese during PTO's to not only help the Axis but help the Navy and USMC squads as well enjoy the setup.

Storch came up with the idea of a CT board sometime back. Maybe we should have instead a CT Squad C.O. Board , consisting of not only the Squad C.O.'s but the CT staff as well to possibly work out bumbs before they become bolders.

Working against each other hasn't done the CT any good. We can work together with the staff , and squads, on this board and still fight like hell with our planes in the arena. Just my 2 cents.

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2005, 05:44:51 PM »
Let’s face it, the CT is a leper colony; at least most people react to is as if its one.  MA stands for Main Arena; that’s tough to compete with.  Unless an arena is named: “Best Pilots Fly Here”, “Air Combat & Porn” or “Dork Free Arena”, the mob will follow the mob.  I really don’t think that anything will be very successful without HTC’s endorsement.  If HTC does not provide a dedicated arena its hard to imagine anything taking off no matter how great the concept.

I also pretty much agree with virtually everything said above my post.

eskimo

Offline RTR

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2915
Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2005, 05:46:34 PM »
I think the idea has some merit, but as I stated before, most of what is offered in this type of setup you can get for free H2H.

I think the reason numbers dropped off in the CT  may be due to the limited scenarios we can have at the moment. There is a huge shortage of maps.

That, coupled with a bit of frustration on the players part, and the CM's part = reduced interest.

I agree we need more squad participation in the CT. Not just on Axis side but Allies as well.  Say what you will about our only real sqn regularly in the CT, but the bottom line is, they fly together and put up a tough fight.

Seems to me about a year ago (pre AHII) we had it pretty good, all in all, in the CT. What worked then should work now.

So, what did work good back then?
More varied scenarios because we had more maps is one reason.

We have some new faces that have come to the CT this past year, and they have nothing to compare it to, as it is now to what it was then. They have valid points to make about what is happening with the CT, in general aren't happy with the arena, and want the same thing we older inhabitants want.

Do we need to change the "modus operandi" of the CT?
I don't think so, just let's get it back to what it was before.

I like the idea of a CT Board. Maybe if we could allow players to design week long scenarios, have them approved and run by the CT staff, we could start to rebuild.

There are people anxiously waiting for CAP to start up, why not run one in the CT to generate some interest. Say on a Saturday, then allow the map and basic premise to run for the rest of the week ala regular CT setup?

thought? comments?

just an idear:)

RTR
The Damned

storch

  • Guest
Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2005, 06:12:38 PM »
I will not play in the CT again until the issue of the axis planes under performing when compared to the MA.  since the current administration has stated that I'm full of **** on this issue and all my posts get skuzzified I guess I'm not coming back.  I do miss it though.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2005, 06:21:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RTR

There are people anxiously waiting for CAP to start up, why not run one in the CT to generate some interest. Say on a Saturday, then allow the map and basic premise to run for the rest of the week ala regular CT setup?

thought? comments?

just an idear:)

RTR


I kinda like the idea.  I've been a proponent of syncing the setups in the CT more closely with SEA events.  Running similar maps and plane setups as popular scenarios/snapshots/squad ops/CAP events that could help introduce players ovewhelmed by the event itself into the right frame of mind, provide practice area for people participating, or just as a way to tag our weekly scenarios onto a special event announcement and get free advertising.  Obviously there are some special event maps that wont work for a week long CT scenario, but for those we could do the suggested weekend setup.

This is also a good way (IMO) to tie into the need for more squads to operate in the CT.  How many old vets dont fly in the MA, but DO fly scenarios?  I could name a handful right off.  Most of them are in active squads.  Alot of them do their practicing offline.  If we did tie-in CT scenarios, not only would we give them an online place to practice against live opponents, but a chance to have a little fun too.  If they come, their squads will come with them.  

I know its a bit of a pipe dream, but its not totally out of reach.  And if we do the tie-in thing, at least we dont have to worry about a map that week.  :)

Offline Grits

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5332
Built it, and they did not come
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2005, 06:37:01 PM »
People didnt come because its not the MA, plain and simple and there is nothing HTC or the CT Staff can/could do about that.

SA2 is right, the CT doesnt need MA converts, although I think anyone and everyone from the MA should be welcomed and encouraged to come to the CT, not driven away. What the CT needs is a separate group, for whom the CT is their reason they play AH, not a temporary diversion to break the usual MA routine. Until that happens, like it was before AHII, nothing will make it better.