Here we go...

[easymo]

 In watching the trial, it looks like the Rep,s were fudging more than braking the law.

 Well, fudging is not acceptable in a Presidential election. As much as it pains me to say it. These vote should be thrown out, unless they can find a way to determine which votes were mishandled. Then only those should be thrown out.

[Eagler]

Though a minor point, considering the high road the Republicans took - as stated in the above thread - I don't think this looks good for Bush. I don't think it's a coincidence either that this is the last court case either, it plays into previous ones too well for the Democrats. Anyone know the judge's party, heard she had a beef with Clinton but looks like a democrat to me.

be a shame to have such a minor point sink the entire election after fighting so hard to win it.

Eagler  

[Fatty]

One doesn't equal the other here, I think a lot of people are missing that.  To prosecute the guy who filled in the applications is one thing, it's fairly likely and would be fairly easy to prove.  To go beyond that and throw out all of the absentee ballots, they must:

Prove those people would not have voted if their ballot application would have been simply rejected

and...

Prove there was election fraud, not simply negligence.  This would be something like preventing democrats the same access.  In court today they failed on this count, after admitting the democrats never asked for access, because as their applications were pre-printed with the IDs they did not need it.


The question on the Judge's conflict (forget her name offhand), the alleged conflict is that Jeb Bush passed her up for promotion recently.  She was asked to recuse herself but declined.


In other news some have asked if the shoe were on the other foot, would we not be sceaming to follow every legal option.  Well, it is somewhat, with the FL legislature debating to (completely within its constitutional rights) send a group of republican electors regardless of the court outcomes.  This, while legal, is not worth the political price.  If it comes to that they best let Gore win, or I'm looking for new representation.

[Nash]

Erhm, please explain to me Eagler.... Just *how* does she look like a democrat to you?

[Nash]

Oh.... and Fatty is right here. The remedy being sought is just too high. If they knew *which* votes were affected, that may be one thing. But they don't. Ya can stop biting yer fingernails guys... this case wont amount to anything.

[easymo]

 Fatty you are starting to sound like a lawyer. On the one hand you say the wrongdoers should be punished. And at the same time saying nothing that wrong was done.

 I couldn't care less what was legal. My concern is with what was right. Clearly the rules of the game were broken, when Rep.s filled in numbers they had no right to do. Whether this was, or was not offered to the Dem,s hardly matters. All they would have been offering to the Dem,s, was a chance to brake the rules also.

[Fatty]

Easymo, what exactly did the voters do wrong?  They applied for ballots, those applications were granted and they recieved ballots, and they voted.

Had the applications been properly rejected, the republican party would have had a chance to resend properly prefilled applications, and/or the voters could have submitted forms downloaded from the web that actually had a place to write your voterID number.  To reject those valid votes based on one person's error goes far beyond prosecuting the guilty party.

Edit note:  If you're going to give those people a chance to apply again submitting the proper information, then allow them to vote absentee, a chance they would have had before, then you can toss out the original.  I think all would agree that's not a very viable option.

[This message has been edited by Fatty (edited 12-06-2000).]

[easymo]

 No one has claimed at any point the the voters have done anything wrong. There votes unfortunately have become fruit from the poison tree.

 At the start of all of this. I saw the opinion expressed, that if the machine kicked out a lignite vote in Dade county. That was just bad luck. And that it happens in every election in the country. I agree with this.

 This is exactly what has happened to these people. and the result should be the same. Mr. leach had no right under the election rules to fill in these app,s.

[Fatty]

This is not the same thing, this is a case where you have real, registered voters, who have cast real votes, and there is no question who they case those votes for.

The only contention is that their first applications should not have been accepted.  The question of counting of those votes, of the legitimacy of those voters, of the validity of the vote total has not been questioned by either side.

What would be the same is if the republicans asked for all of miami-dade to be thrown out because of evidence that some felons illegally voted for Al Gore (there is that evidence, by the way).  If they decided to pursue this, I would be outraged.

[Nash]

Actually Fatty, it's my understanding that many many many more democratic voters were mistakenly taken off the approved voters list for being felons, than felons voted for Gore.

[Fatty]

The point being Nash that it's pretty commonly accepted that some convicted felons voted.

This isn't that big of a deal, it happens, and you try to do a better job next election of screening them.  But you could concievably ask that since there is evidence of some, there are probably more that you do not find, and the only safe thing would be to throw out all of them.

[easymo]

 Sorry fatty but using unproven accusations to make your point ain't gonna get it.

 I would be about as happy as you to hear this weasel has whined his way into the white house. But the only way to stop the Dem,s is to get into bed with them. That is something im not prepared to do.

[Fatty]

Easymo, that's not just something I made up.  The estimated number of convicted felons that voted in the Miami area is just over a thousand, and accepted by all parties.  I only bring it up because to ask that a million votes be thrown out because some of them are illegal is silly, yet probably has more legal validity than the Seminole County case.

You simply cannot throw out 15 thousand votes when the voters are legally registered, the vote count is not in question, and they have committed no wrong in casting those votes.

[Fatty]

btw Easymo, outside of this case I agree with you.  I wish the Legislature would shut up and go home.  I just don't see her ruling to throw out the ballots as a possibility, but should she actually do that I'd rather see Gore in office than the Legislature placing a Bush electorate anyway.

[Kieren]

Agreed, Fatty.