Author Topic: Ding!!! Finally I got it!! (Read 1855 times)

bozon · « **Reply #15 on:** June 15, 2005, 01:41:39 AM »

very good explanation Tex.

JB73's point is also correct, 109 and spit pilots love the rudder reverse. They are not so worried about loosing some E since they can build it up very fast.

Bozon

Keiler · « **Reply #16 on:** June 15, 2005, 03:11:22 AM »

The trick with the hand has helped

My slow brain has it too now..

Flyboy · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2005, 07:14:59 AM »

me head hurts....

GWDJRR · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2005, 03:30:42 PM »

I think I got it!

JB73 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2005, 10:50:55 PM »

used it on a hurri in my 190D tonight, worked great, i missed gthe shot, but i wish i had film running.

though i'd like to learn more about this "vector roll" or whatever

i'll film one in the next few days and post my "flip" thing

Keiler · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2005, 03:42:42 AM »

Awesome!

Thanks JB73!

GWDJRR · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2005, 02:24:16 PM »

Tryed it last night,Still not working for me,takeing to long to get turned around and when I do get turned around(+ flaps) I am faced with a HO or I pull to the right or left and the HOer shots me .

pellik · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2005, 04:19:59 PM »

I'm really not quite sure what tex thinks he sees in these maneuvers. The only point of these moves is to control your E state to gain a slight turn advantage. There's no magic shorter path to turning 180, and asside from slight rolls you're probably making yourself take longer with some of your moves.

What you do need to be aware of, however, is your energy state. The slower a plane is the faster it can turn that 180 as the G force expierienced is directly reated to speed. Consider standing up and spinning around in circles vs trying to do a U turn on the freeway at 60 w/o letting the wheels loose. High yo-yos and immelmans convert kinetic energy (speed) into potential energy (altitude), and the lower speed allows you to turn faster. On the flip side if your plane is going too slow to really turn fast on account of inadequate lift/power, a low yo-yo or split-s will allow for a quicker turn.

So where do those overly complex rolls during the turn come in? Each plane has a speed where it's just turning it's best. If it gains any more speed the pilot would have to let up to avoid a blackout. If it loses any more speed it stops pulling as many G and the pilot isn't even blacking out a little. If you roll from a flat turn you'll either move into a high or low yoyo. When I merge I typically start with a high yoyo to bleed speed down to find my best turn, then roll a little bit to start converting my high yoyo into a slightly low one where I can hold that corner speed. Thus my plane turns around as fast as possible.

-p.

pellik · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2005, 04:23:19 PM »

Oh, reread the first post. Looks like Tex is starting to discover the energy egg.

Anyway, slower also equals a smaller turn radius.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #24 on:** June 16, 2005, 05:41:29 PM »

Lol pellik.

I was going like... ummm what is he talkin about am I that bad at explaining what I mean... then I read the second post..

Anyways its not about reversing faster. Its about creating room for a reverse.

The problem with that is the fact that the slower you fly the tighter you reverse but at the same time the slower you fly the faster the enemy catches up.

Tex

Wolf14 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 16, 2005, 06:03:53 PM »

Energy egg?

TDeacon · « **Reply #26 on:** June 16, 2005, 09:16:51 PM »

I'm not entirely sure this concept of "creating room" for your reversal is valid. It seems to me that what you are really doing here is delaying your reversal (assuming the average case, where both planes are moving at the same speed). Regardless of whether you do a barrel roll, or just a regular roll, you end up inverted, and only at that point can you start to reverse. The only thing the barrel roll potentially accomplishes (edited) over the regular roll, is to slow you down to the best speed for your turn.

(All this is assuming that you are not additionally taking advantage of transient, out-of-control behavior of a specific aircraft, which conceivably could be used to change the velocity vector more quickly than when in normal controlled flight).

pellik · « **Reply #27 on:** June 17, 2005, 04:12:03 AM »

moved to a new thread.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #28 on:** June 17, 2005, 07:51:47 AM »

TDeacon.

Lets take a few steps back.

What is it that im trying to acomplish?

I have a con at my six. He is slowly closing and I cant out run him. Im at the deck.

I want to reverse so that Im facing him and Im co alt with him so that I can merge with him.

If I flat turn I will give up a lead turn shot.

If I do a high YoYO he will get a lead turn shot in the yoyo as its just a tilted turn.

If I immelman he will get a "lead turn shot" in the veritcal. Even if he doesnt get it I will not be able to get into the position where Im facing him at co alt and can merge with him. He is too close.

High YoYo is the best of options of these manouvers, still not good enough.

The sudgested tail slide low yoyo does give you a possible solution but imho you waste too much E.

The entire point of my discussion is trying to decide where you wana be when you exit the manouver. Then figure out how to get there in the right moment.

If you in the given situaiton wana just roll and do a split s. please be my guest...

But you will slam the ground as you dont have the room under you. with the barrell roll you do create the vertical room for your self. plus the fact that even if you have the room and you wana exit your manouver co alt with your enemy then you need to do a vertical move. if you roll and split S then you need to climb up to the enemy. So it really doesnt help you at all.

Tex

Engine · « **Reply #29 on:** June 17, 2005, 08:53:48 AM »

Tex... you're still a newb.