British Night bombing

[simshell]

how accurate was the British bombing at night ?

and did it realy hurt germany in anyway?


and what was the method for finding and hitting the target?

this is something iv not heard much about

[Karnak]

In 1940 it was useless.  Something like 50% of the bombs fell within 25 miles of the target.  By 1945 it was pretty much as accurate as USAAF daylight bombing.

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Karnak
In 1940 it was useless.  Something like 50% of the bombs fell within 25 miles of the target.  By 1945 it was pretty much as accurate as USAAF daylight bombing.

And sometimes more accurate than USAAF bombing. It is hard to be accurate when the bombers drop on the lead bombers drop with formations over 1500' wide. Then there was the target being obscured from smoke and dust from previously dropped bombs.

[Furball]

The introduction of H2S radar and the use of pathfinders helped a lot.

[Nashwan]

From the United States Strategic Bombing Survey:

Under the conditions created in Germany by heavy flak, fighter opposition, bad weather, and effective smoke screening, it was necessary in a high percentage of the attacks to use instrument bombing, which proved to be far less accurate than visual bombing. As a result, tremendous tonnages had to be flown from England in order to hit vital parts of plants with a relatively small tonnage. Detailed plant records for three plants (Leuna, Ludwigshafen-Oppau, Zeitz) show that, of 30,000 tons of bombs dropped, only 3,781 tons hit within the plant fences. Different aiming techniques gave the following results:
Air Force and Technique   Percentage of Hits Within the Plants
8th AF visual aiming   26.8
8th AF, part visual aiming and part instrument   12.4
8th AF, full instrument   5.4
RAF, night Pathfinder technique   15.8
Weighted average   12.6

That example illustrates the point quite nicely. On average, visual aiming by day was more accurate than instrument bombing.

However, because of weather conditions and smoke screens, the USAAF frequently had to bomb using instruments (I've seen figures that show more than half their attacks in the last year of the war were made on instruments, not visual aiming)

So, the USAAF frequently ended up using similar techniques to the RAF, but the RAF, which had pioneered the techniques, and put a lot of effort into training for them, were more accurate bombing with radar and nav aids than the USAAF.

[nirvana]

They had planes go in before the bombers and drop flares over the target to help them find it, didn't they?

[Tails]

I think that was how they did it, before radar was widely used.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by nirvana
They had planes go in before the bombers and drop flares over the target to help them find it, didn't they?

A little different.  The flares are colored and a pathfinder Mossie would go in and mark the target with a flare.  If the Mossie missed he would go in and mark it again with a different color, then let the Lancs know which to target.  So the Lancs were targeting the flare, not using it to illuminate the target.


That was one method.  Another was to use the H2S ground mapping radar on later Lancs and Halifaxes to determine where the target was.

[Krusty]

What are you talking about, effective? They levelled cities! Forget whether they hit "factory X" for a second and think about the 100,000's of lives that were lost from incendiary bombs, the fact that some German cities were litterally obliterated completely.

It sure as HELL did damage. Forget hitting a single factory, but ALL bombing took its toll. Don't forget that.

[bozon]

how accurate was the British bombing at night ?

Well, they normally managed to hit Germany, but some of the bombs still fell on neibouring countries like the Netherlands.

Bozon

[Kurfürst]

Yeah, the RAF officials came up with nice 'statistics' after the war to prove how much more accurate the Bomber Command was than the USAAF during the daylight.

Statistics lie 90% hit the target area... the only problem that they defined the target area with a circle of 8 miles(!!!!).

But one just wonder, if they had so brilliant bombing technique, why is it that even in 1945 they did nothing else than area bombing and piling up hills from the bodies dead civillians?

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Kurfürst
Yeah, the RAF officials came up with nice 'statistics' after the war to prove how much more accurate the Bomber Command was than the USAAF during the daylight.

Statistics lie 90% hit the target area... the only problem that they defined the target area with a circle of 8 miles(!!!!).

But one just wonder, if they had so brilliant bombing technique, why is it that even in 1945 they did nothing else than area bombing and piling up hills from the bodies dead civillians?

You mean apart from the Dams; sub pens and and the Tirpitz?

[Kurfürst]

2 dams, a couple of damaged subpens and an enemy battleship sunk does not seem to me a good payoff for over ten thousend bombers lost with 55 000 crew onboard, an effort that amounted 40% of the British war spendings according to AJP Taylor.

Hmm, Tirpitz...Flown by the best RAF bomber pilots, perfectly clear weather, no enemy fighters etc...

.. and out of the 60+ large bombs dropped, I think 1 or two hit a stationary, 250 m long, 36 meter wide target.

[Wotan]

You mean apart from the Dams; sub pens and and the Tirpitz?

Most of that wasn't night bombing nor was it standard level bombing. It's a stupid comparison.

Yeah, the RAF officials came up with nice 'statistics' after the war to prove how much more accurate the Bomber Command was than the USAAF during the daylight.

Statistics lie 90% hit the target area... the only problem that they defined the target area with a circle of 8 miles(!!!!).

But one just wonder, if they had so brilliant bombing technique, why is it that even in 1945 they did nothing else than area bombing and piling up hills from the bodies dead civillians?

Kurfürst is correct,

Its not that hard to fire bomb apartment blocks 'accurately'...

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Kurfürst
But one just wonder, if they had so brilliant bombing technique, why is it that even in 1945 they did nothing else than area bombing and piling up hills from the bodies dead civillians?

I don't believe you have the nerve!!!!!

Germany -
1) Indiscrimate bombing of London, Coventry etc
2) V1, V2 Were only to kill civilians.
3) Rounded up MILLIONS of innocent civilians and killed them.

He who live in glasshouse, shouldn't throw stones.