Suggested, complete Spitfire lineup for Aces High

[1K3]

Originally posted by Kev367th

This backs up Karnaks list being representative of Spit Mks and variants.
Ia
Vb
LF IX
LF VIII
F XIV
LF XVI
Seafire L III

pssst you forgot the F Mk. IX

very goood lineup... but will spitfire LF 16 be perked?

[Kev367th]

Ooooopppps

Ia
Vb
F IX
LF VIII
F XIV
LF XVI
Seafire L III

I forgot the F IX, tks.
F IX covers 1942.
L.F. VIII can cover as an L.F. IX for scenarios etc.

No the XVI wouldn't be perked, it's a Merlin Spit.


Made a start on the engines

Ia - Merlin II
Vb - Merlin 45/46 if F, 45M if LF
F IX - Merlin 61/63/63A
LF VIII - Merlin 66
F XIV - Griffon 65
LF XVI - Packard Merlin 266

Seafire III - Merlin 55M

Only choices to make would be -
F IX - Merlin 61, 63 or 63A
Vb - If it turns out F Vb was most produced, Merlin 45 or 46, else LF had Merlin 45M

[Furball]

[Karnak]

Dan,

I too prefer highbacked Spits, but some prefer lowback Spits and putting the XVI in as a lowback would give them the fighter they wanted.  I'd still have the LF.Mk VIII and F.Mk XIV to play with.

Crump,

No, the Bf109G-6 in AH does not have MW50, which is why it's top speed is a mere 386mph.  A Bf109G-14 would top out at about 420mph.

Furball,

That isn't needed.

[Crumpp]

No, the Bf109G-6 in AH does not have MW50, which is why it's top speed is a mere 386mph. A Bf109G-14 would top out at about 420mph.

Thanks for the clarification.

Pyro and I discussed the FW-190A series in AH.

Examining performance figures the best representation without overburdening the modeling programmers on one type is IMHO:

FW-190A3
FW-190F3
FW-190F8
FW-190A8 early (12bladed Lufterrad 801D2 without 1.58ata/1.65ata)
FW-190A9 (BMW801TH)
FW-190D9
Ta-152H

The early FW-190A8 had very similar performance to the FW-190A6 but better than the FW-190A5 due to engine improvements which gave it about 200hp more power available.  It could sub for mid war after the FW-190A3.

It was Pyro's opinion at the time that keeping the FW-190A5 in the game does nothing for the lineup.  It was the poorest performing FW-190A and the pilots admit to the Spitfire Merlin 66 being superior until pressurized ignition came out for the 801D2.

All the best,

Crumpp

[Karnak]

Crump,

The bottom line is that we need a planned lineup for aircraft that fought the whole, or most, of the length of the war.

What we have now is an incomplete, or in the case of the Spitfire F.Mk IX and +16lbs Boost Spitfire LF.Mk Vc overcoverage for late 1942 leaving 1941 and 1943 bare, sampling of these aircraft that leave significant gaps.  The three most obvious to us in the West are the Spitfire, Fw190 and Bf109 series of fighters.  But a strong case can also be made for the LaGG/Lachovkin and Yak series needing the same treatment.

[Crumpp]

What we have now is an incomplete, or in the case of the Spitfire F.Mk IX and +16lbs Boost Spitfire LF.Mk Vc overcoverage for late 1942 leaving 1941 and 1943 bare

I agree, we need more spits and I have always supported bringing them to AH.  Just letting everyone know the results of our conversation about the FW190A and it's modeling.

All the best,

Crumpp

[lasersailor184]

Wouldn't the Spit 16 be better than the Spit 14?  Why would it be free?



Btw, stop bashing the Spit 14.  Except for my own stupidity, nothing can down me in them.

[1K3]

Originally posted by Crumpp
Thanks for the clarification.

Pyro and I discussed the FW-190A series in AH.

Examining performance figures the best representation without overburdening the modeling programmers on one type is IMHO:

FW-190A3
FW-190F3
FW-190F8
FW-190A8 early (12bladed Lufterrad 801D2 without 1.58ata/1.65ata)
FW-190A9 (BMW801TH)
FW-190D9
Ta-152H

The early FW-190A8 had very similar performance to the FW-190A6 but better than the FW-190A5 due to engine improvements which gave it about 200hp more power available.  It could sub for mid war after the FW-190A3.

It was Pyro's opinion at the time that keeping the FW-190A5 in the game does nothing for the lineup.  It was the poorest performing FW-190A and the pilots admit to the Spitfire Merlin 66 being superior until pressurized ignition came out for the 801D2.

All the best,

Crumpp

Did 190A-3/F-3 see service in east front too? I believe A-3/F-3s were introduced  in the west 1st and the East campaign saw its first 190 in a A-4/A-5 form

(im just curious and i'm not suppose to post this since im deviating from the subject/thread)

[Karnak]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Wouldn't the Spit 16 be better than the Spit 14?  Why would it be free?



Btw, stop bashing the Spit 14.  Except for my own stupidity, nothing can down me in them.

No, the Spitfire F.Mik XIV at +21lbs Boost would have a lot more power than the Spitfire LF.Mk XVI at +25lbs Boost.

The difference being the Griffon 65 in the Spitfire Mk XIV and the Merlin 266 in the Spitfire Mk XVI.

Why would the Mk XVI be better than the Mk XIV?

Keep in mind that a Mk XVI is just a Mk IX with a US built Merlin 266 instead of a British built Merlin 66.  The Merlin 266 and Merlin 66 are the same engine, save their manufacturer.

[lasersailor184]

(I can read!  Hur Hur!)


So what's different about the Spit 9 and the Spit 16?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
(I can read!  Hur Hur!)


So what's different about the Spit 9 and the Spit 16?

In my suggested line up?

Spitfire F.Mk IX:

Merlin 61 engine at +15lbs boost.
Full span wings.
Same rounded vertical stabilizer/rudder as the Spitfire Mk I, Mk II and Mk V
Two 20mm cannon and four .303 calibre machineguns.
One 500lb bomb or one drop tank.

Spitfire LF.Mk XVI:
Merlin 266 engine at +25lbs boost.
Clipped wings, possibly with a bubble canopy.
Enlarged, pointed vertical stabilizer/rudder as on Mk VIII and Mk XIV.
Two 20mm cannon and two .50 calibre machineguns.
One 500lb bomb centerline or one droptank, and one 250lb bomb under each wing or one 60lb rocket projectile under each wing.


In actuallity the Spitfire LF.Mk XVIe is the same as a late production Spitfire LF.Mk IXe.  Note that I am not suggesting such a Spitfire Mk IX.  I am suggesting an early Spitfire F.Mk IXc.

Basically calling a Spitfire a Spitfire Mk IX tells us about as much as calling a Bf109 a Bf109G tells us about the Bf109, e.g. not much specific.  Aces High doesn't do that to the Bf109s, but it does do that to the Spitfires.  It makes it seem, wrongly, that a Spitfire Mk IX is a Spitfire Mk IX is a Spitfire Mk IX.  There were a lot of subvarients of the Spitfire Mk IX.

[lasersailor184]

Ok, now I'm going to try to get you to speak english.


Tell me how fast that Spit 9 and Spit 16 go in comparison to the Spit 9 we have now.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Ok, now I'm going to try to get you to speak english.


Tell me how fast that Spit 9 and Spit 16 go in comparison to the Spit 9 we have now.

Posted this in an older thread.  The LFIX and XVI would be similar.  Note how the LFV at the alts AH is fought was a better performer then the FIX.  Note the improved climb of the LF over the FIX

Spit LFV 4000 feet. Top speed 350 mph
Spit FIX 4000 feet Top Speed 326 mph

Spit LFV 8000 feet Top speed 348 mph
Spit FIX 8000 feet Top Speed 344 mph


Time to climb

Spit LFV 8000 feet 1 minute 45 seconds
Spit F IX 8000 feet 2 minutes 20 seconds.


Now note the LFIX numbers

Spit LFIX 4000 feet Top speed 364 mph
10000 feet (didnt note 8K) Top Speed 370 MPH

Now note the climb to 10K 2 minutes 6 seconds. The LFIX went to 10K faster then the FIX could get to 8K.

Dan/CorkyJr

[Kev367th]

LF XVI/LF IX with proposed 25lbs boost-

Sea level - 358
500 - 360
1000 - 363
1500 - 366
2000 - 368
2500 - 371
3000 - 373
3500 - 376
4000 - 379

Actually makes it faster than a Tiffy by approx 8mph all listed alts
Only have data up to 4k.

Compare to the F IX figures in the post above.

@4K LF XVI/LF IX are 53mph faster than our current F IX.

I know Dan prefers the highback XVI but- this just looks sexy.