Gay Marriage

[DREDIOCK]

I think the largest problem most people have with it is the word "marriage".
 If it were called anything else but with the exact same rights legally most people wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

  Myself personally I am against Gays using the word "Marriage"
I find it insulting to the arrangement between my wife and myself
Throughout time in 99.9% of society marriage has always been defined as a union between a man and a woman, a HUSBAND and a WIFE. And I see no reason to change that for the sake of political correctness.

On the otherhand.
I have no problem with a union between two men or two women with all the same benefits and headaches that are currently granted by law to married men and women.
Call it a spousal union, domestic partnership, a Garriage (hmm theres one that has merit) or anything else. Just dont call it marriage.

Issue two. And I know this is going to be very unpopular with some here. But this is how I personally feel.

I am against Gay couples raising children. Particularly small children.
I've seen enough of it first hand to come to the conclusion it just doesn't work. Especially with small children say under age 10.
Im sure that these couples could provide all the love provided by a traditional family. But thats not all there is to it.
Men and women are hardwired differently, A gay but butch woman is not the same as a man and likewise a gay but feminine man is not the same a a woman no matter what way you try to slice it.

In each case I have personally seen. Its become VERY  obvious to me the small child craves I would even call it hungers what is missing. Be it man or woman.
I could tell either overtly or covertly that they want and perhaps even need that other sex there.
Attempts at bringing members of the missing sex over for visits  and spend time with the child seem to be helpful but little more then a temporary fix that doesnt last very long. In one case I even saw a child say "Mommy I love so in so, but shes a girl and want my own daddy like Jessica has" Now I could see this tore the women up inside and I honestly felt bad for them. But I also could see the childs point.

 Sorry but it just aint the same

[Charon]

I'm just growing increadibly weary of the fundamental errosion of the concept of "the married couple".

How so? My marriage is a personal committment between my wife and myself. I said my vows to her, and the purely contractual issues again, define only our relationship. If you are religious then god is included as well.  My decision to get married had nothing to do with other people; how I respect those vows is a personal thing and not socital; and anything that would end the marriage would be similarly between me and my wife.

You can trace the "erosion" of marriage 100 percent to heterosexual individuals, making individual, personal  decisions that impact their individual marriages. If anything, homosexuals demanding the right to marry, and putting so much importance on it, is somewhat quaint and encouraging, IMO. An optimal religious goal for socitey where heterosexuals are concerned.

Charon

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Charon
You can trace the "erosion" of marriage 100 percent to heterosexual individuals, making individual, personal  decisions that impact their individual marriages. If anything, homosexuals demanding the right to marry, and putting so much importance on it, is somewhat quaint and encouraging, IMO. An optimal religious goal for socitey where heterosexuals are concerned.

This makes absolutely no sense.

[Charon]

I've seen enough of it first hand to come to the conclusion it just doesn't work. Especially with small children say under age 10.

Doesn't work, or has some issues? Being the child of divorce had some issues for me (very much like your examples), but all in all it ended up working out pretty well. Being less wealthy and growing up in an upper middle class neighborhood has some issues, being the child of an interracial marriage has issues, being the child of handicapped parents has issues, being a child with negelectful parents (TV babysitter/workaholic father, etc.) has issues.

There are numerous "less than optimal" parenting situations around. But in the end, beyond clearly threatening absuive situations, people seem to grow up and get on with their lives.

Charon

[Mini D]

BTW... there's alot of "technically" running around in this thread. The predominant use of that word is exactly what brings out the use of the words "erode" and "undermine". Quit trying to reason away gut feelings.

[Charon]

This makes absolutely no sense.

Marriage is an individual contract between a man and woman. If I cheat on my wife and the marriage ends, it's not TVs fault, or Rap music's, or the gays -- it's mine. I made that decision.

Only heterosexuals can marry = 100 percent a heterosexual issue today.

The erosion of marriage is therefore a failure of heterosexual individuals, unless you don't believe in personal responsibility.

Charon

[Urchin]

Oh wow, I actually agree with Mini D.  

As far as marriage goes, in a country that has its roots in any religion, marriage is a sanctified relationship in the eyes of [insert deity here].  

I will have to plead ignorance though, I wasn't aware you could have an entirely secular "wedding" (or be wed, however the best way to put it is) by a government official.  I thought even they used some token religious stuff.  Maybe that is the best solution after all.  If there aren't any churches that will marry gay people, then let the government do it.  Seeing as how they are gay anyway, I find it a little tough to believe they are fearing hellfire and damnation lol.  

As far as raising kids goes, I honestly don't think that two good gay parents would do any worse a job than two good straight parents would, to say nothing of two poor parents, or one.  I think a lot of people fear that two gay people will raise one little gay person, but more goes into that than just the environment (as far as I know).  You could be raised in the gayest household ever, but if you lack the biological traits for, well, gayness, then you'd still be straight (much to the chagrin of your parents?  lol).  The same goes for a gay kid raised in a straight household...  even if your at-home environment doesn't set off some biological trigger, chances are some other environment will.  

Well, it has been an interesting debate anyway .

[lada]

Originally posted by Mini D
I'm all for gay couples having the same rights that married couples have... especially in regards to medical coverage and taxes. I'm just growing increadibly weary of the fundamental errosion of the concept of "the married couple".

may be we should abandon term marriage, because it seems to fit only for religion people. All other seems to be fine with some term, whitch will describe their common legal status.

[lada]

Originally posted by Mini D
I'm all for gay couples having the same rights that married couples have... especially in regards to medical coverage and taxes. I'm just growing increadibly weary of the fundamental errosion of the concept of "the married couple".

Was thit reaction on my question from delted post ? ( i think so)

[thrila]

Urchin if homosexuality is biological then surely god made them that way.  Why would it be a sin if he created them that way?

[lada]

Originally posted by thrila
Urchin if homosexuality is biological then surely god made them that way.  Why would it be a sin if he created them that way?

Sylli Boy ..... How the hell can you fly tiffie that well , when you are soooo uneducated....


Gay= Satan inside
Les= Angel ..... Look at her honey, shes so lonely.. shall we help here

Actualy next step could be invitation of new Pope and establish brand new University of Exorcism
Those who will graduate could fillin gap in police structures

[Hangtime]

Lets let 'em register their gay tarded-ness.

Then it'll be easier to identify them (we won't have to check their decorating skills) when it comes time to round 'em all up to send 'em to gay concentration camps like hollywood, greenwich village and fire island.

..oh wait.. they migrate there naturally.

nevermind.

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Charon
Marriage is an individual contract between a man and woman. If I cheat on my wife and the marriage ends, it's not TVs fault, or Rap music's, or the gays -- it's mine. I made that decision.

Only heterosexuals can marry = 100 percent a heterosexual issue today.

The erosion of marriage is therefore a failure of heterosexual individuals, unless you don't believe in personal responsibility.

Charon

Ah... sorry... didn't see the smoke and mirrors aproach.

Divorce is also eroding at the foundation of the concept of marriage. This is a valid point. It is not an excuse to continue to throw other sources of erosion in there too.

So... in a thread about gay marriages, pointing that other things are even worse to the concept of marriage is a bit irrelevant. Once again... if you have to point a finger and say "what about them?!?!" then you've lost.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Mini D
I'm all for gay couples having the same rights that married couples have... especially in regards to medical coverage and taxes. I'm just growing increadibly weary of the fundamental errosion of the concept of "the married couple".

According to the BIBLE we are all products of incest.
Im growing incredibly weary of the fundamentalists.

                       

[Charon]

Divorce is also eroding at the foundation of the concept of marriage. This is a valid point. It is not an excuse to continue to throw other sources of erosion in there too.

Somebody elses divorce has an impact on the vows you made to your wife? A gay couple getting married will impact your marriage how again?

I personally think this issue is smoke and mirrors for a lot of people (certainly not all and not saying you - I don't know you personally) who just don't like gays and want to punish them. "I may have to tolerate you as a member of society, but' I'll be dammed if you're going to get married or raise a child..."


Charon