Gay Marriage

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by NUKE
I never once said that I feel society should remain stagnant. Right now, it is against the law for homos to marry and that's the way it is and should be. I never want it to be legal for them to marry.
[/B]

So you like things the way they are and you never want them to change?  And the definition of stagnant is...?

Originally posted by NUKE
The funny thing is that people claim that homos are being descrimitated against somehow, when they are not. They have the exact same rights as heteros do. No more, no less.
[/B]

Then I guess you would say that blacks had the exact same rights as whites prior to the civil rights movement?  They had the right to go to public school just like white kids (just not the same school).  Black men had the right to marry a woman if they wanted to (just not a white woman).

Originally posted by Gunslinger
now you are jumping to conclusions.  The old testiment is not irelevent nore are the ten commandments.

I am?  I thought you said it was irrelavent...let me look...yeah, you said it is irrelavent.

Originally posted by Gunslinger
When Jesus died for our sins christions gained a new covenent with god.  The laws and moral lessons of the old testiment are still valid but the ceremonial aspects of it (not eating fish certain days, cripples cant go before the alter of god ect) are no longer valid.

So just sweep Matt 15 and Mark 7 away...glad you know which parts of the Bible to believe and which to dismiss.

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Still  none of you that are for redefining society norms can tell me what is wrong with a law pertaining to "civil unions"

Nothing is wrong with it...where is it?  Have you written your Congressman or Senator?  The reason the gays are after marriage is because civil unions are not Federally recognized nor are they recognized in every state.  So again, they want the same rights granted to married couples.  They want the right to survivors benefits should one partner die.  They want the right to claim property ownership should one partner die without a will.  They want to ensure that any child they are raising is not sent to foster care if the bio mom/dad or legal adoption mom/dad dies.  They want to get lower car insurance rates, LOL.

So write your state and Federal legislators...tell em to make the homos and lesbos shut-up...give em civil unions.  Then you can be happy in the symantics of the word "marriage" remaining between a man and a woman.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by -dead-
Sloppy thinking there — oxygen, water, sleep, food, shelter. That's all humans need to survive. Procreation is entirely optional.
 

I am going to ignore every thing else you typed and concentrate on this.  Hey at least I'm honest about it.

So if humans don't reproduce how do they survive as a species again?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by crowMAW
So you like things the way they are and you never want them to change?  And the definition of stagnant is...?

Then I guess you would say that blacks had the exact same rights as whites prior to the civil rights movement?  They had the right to go to public school just like white kids (just not the same school).  Black men had the right to marry a woman if they wanted to (just not a white woman).

I am?  I thought you said it was irrelavent...let me look...yeah, you said it is irrelavent.

So just sweep Matt 15 and Mark 7 away...glad you know which parts of the Bible to believe and which to dismiss.
 
Nothing is wrong with it...where is it?  Have you written your Congressman or Senator?  The reason the gays are after marriage is because civil unions are not Federally recognized nor are they recognized in every state.  So again, they want the same rights granted to married couples.  They want the right to survivors benefits should one partner die.  They want the right to claim property ownership should one partner die without a will.  They want to ensure that any child they are raising is not sent to foster care if the bio mom/dad or legal adoption mom/dad dies.  They want to get lower car insurance rates, LOL.

So write your state and Federal legislators...tell em to make the homos and lesbos shut-up...give em civil unions.  Then you can be happy in the symantics of the word "marriage" remaining between a man and a woman.

Crow show me ONE right that a homosexual does not have that a strait person does??????????

I never said the old testiment was irrelevent I said this was:

I think we have quite a few laws that contravene God...and personally, I am glad of it. It is against the law to offer up your child as a burnt offering regardless who tells you to do it (and the "God told me" defense doesn't hold up in court to well...even when the jury is made of Christians). It is against the law to pander your daughters for sex even if it is to protect some angels.

I even got more specific about WHY when you asked.

I will write who I want when I want.  I think there are far more pressing issues in society today than to pressure my congressmen about civil unions.  I said I wasn't against them not that I'd advocate for them.

[Silat]

Originally posted by crowMAW
But I have to ask you, Nuke and the rest...why do you care if two fairies marry?  Allowing same-sex marriage would not effect me at all...and I assume it wouldn't effect you either (unless someone is coming out of the closet).  

Well Crow it is my assertion that you have hit the nail on the head so to speak. Those so passionately against gays having the same rights as the heteroes might feel compelled to change their orientation and that is what scares them. You know they believe being gay is a choice. So if the choice is legalized then........

And I have a religious question as the whole Gays are against nature statement is religious in scope.

Adam and Eve had kids. Those kids must have done the dead to expand the population. Incest would have been neccessary. So we are all the product of incest?
Now how does this sit with all who believe the bible is the law?
Dont be to contradictory in your answer:)

[-dead-]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I am going to ignore every thing else you typed and concentrate on this.  Hey at least I'm honest about it.

So if humans don't reproduce how do they survive as a species again?

Humans as a species (you might want to think of this as Homo Sapiens to avoid confusion) need some humans to reproduce to survive. Humans as individuals do not need to reproduce to survive. That's the sloppy thinking.

And this small difference is where your argument fails: because not every human needs to reproduce to have the species survive.

I don't blame you for ignoring the rest of my post. I'd have given up too, if I was you: I don't see much of answer that maintains your position but doesn't go along the lines of "just because" or reek of hipocrisy either. Better to keep quiet on that lot.

I'd still like to know what your feelings on childless heterosexual couples are, though: should they be allowed to marry? Even if they are so "unnatural" that they are not going to procreate? Are those who cannot procreate also unnatural? Should all couples who want to marry be forced take a fertility test and sign a "We promise to procreate" affadavit? It's a logical step based on the premise of "couple X is unnatural because they can't/won't procreate, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to marry".

But I'm sure you'll ignore that bit again.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by -dead-
Humans as a species (you might want to think of this as Homo Sapiens to avoid confusion) need some humans to reproduce to survive. Humans as individuals do not need to reproduce to survive. That's the sloppy thinking.

And this small difference is where your argument fails: because not every human needs to reproduce to have the species survive.

 

so it's settled then.  More often then not I was referring to Humans as a species.

[-dead-]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
so it's settled then.  More often then not I was referring to Humans as a species.

What's settled? You haven't even stated your case clearly yet.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Silat
Well Crow it is my assertion that you have hit the nail on the head so to speak. Those so passionately against gays having the same rights as the heteroes might feel compelled to change their orientation and that is what scares them. You know they believe being gay is a choice. So if the choice is legalized then........

And I have a religious question as the whole Gays are against nature statement is religious in scope.

Adam and Eve had kids. Those kids must have done the dead to expand the population. Incest would have been neccessary. So we are all the product of incest?
Now how does this sit with all who believe the bible is the law?
Dont be to contradictory in your answer:)

In the begining God didnt say that incest was wrong. In fact if he had, the human species would not have survived since there was only one man and one woman to begin with. It wasnt until later that incest was declared taboo. (I dont have my electronic Bible loaded on this comp so I cant do the searches required to find this info, Seagoon can probably help me out here). Just going from memory I believe it is the book of Leviticus that first tells us what is right and wrong when it comes to sexual relations with others.

I believe that marriage is an institution, defined by God, between a Man, a Woman and God.

[Elfie]

Humans as a species (you might want to think of this as Homo Sapiens to avoid confusion) need some humans to reproduce to survive. Humans as individuals do not need to reproduce to survive.

When God sent Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden he commanded them to go forth and reproduce and fill the earth. It's not possible to fulfill that commandment if you practice homosexuality.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by -dead-
What's settled? You haven't even stated your case clearly yet.

re-read page two and three.  You havnt even come close to disproving it.  You havnt even read my posts correctly.  You prove that every time you post.

with out completly picking my words apart and miss quoting me you cannot tell me how a human species would survive if they can't procreat.....notice the words HUMAN and SPECIES.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Silat
Well Crow it is my assertion that you have hit the nail on the head so to speak. Those so passionately against gays having the same rights as the heteroes might feel compelled to change their orientation and that is what scares them. You know they believe being gay is a choice. So if the choice is legalized then........

And I have a religious question as the whole Gays are against nature statement is religious in scope.

Adam and Eve had kids. Those kids must have done the dead to expand the population. Incest would have been neccessary. So we are all the product of incest?
Now how does this sit with all who believe the bible is the law?
Dont be to contradictory in your answer:)

I'm still waiting for ANYONE on this board to point out ONE right just ONE right that a strait person has that is denied to a gay person.

Silat I've made the nature argument (that really has nothing to do with marriage but somone wanted to argue it) and it has nothing to do with religion.  Religion is an ideal created by man, man did not create nature.

[Chairboy]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I'm still waiting for ANYONE on this board to point out ONE right just ONE right that a strait person has that is denied to a gay person.

Ok, I'll bite.  They have the right to get married to their true love/soul mate/fiance.

That's really the crux of the matter, isn't it?

If you're arguing that giving homosexuals the right to marry each other is a 'special right', you're mistaken.  Because, by definition, that would give heterosexuals the right to marry members of the same sex as well, though I imagine you'd have to be pretty 'special' indeed to do that.  

End result, everyone has the same rights.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I'm still waiting for ANYONE on this board to point out ONE right just ONE right that a strait person has that is denied to a gay person.

Silat I've made the nature argument (that really has nothing to do with marriage but somone wanted to argue it) and it has nothing to do with religion.  Religion is an ideal created by man, man did not create nature.

The argument that being gay is "Unnatural" is a religious argument. Otherwise you would quote valid scientific data to prove the point.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Chairboy
Ok, I'll bite.  They have the right to get married to their true love/soul mate/fiance.

That's really the crux of the matter, isn't it?

If you're arguing that giving homosexuals the right to marry each other is a 'special right', you're mistaken.  Because, by definition, that would give heterosexuals the right to marry members of the same sex as well, though I imagine you'd have to be pretty 'special' indeed to do that.  

End result, everyone has the same rights.

and by your argument gays have the right to marry their "true love/soul mate/fiance" just like strait people do.  They don't have the right to marry their " true love/soul mate/fiance" if they are of the same sex JUST LIKE STRAIT PEOPLE!

There is no civil rights being denied here.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Elfie
When God sent Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden he commanded them to go forth and reproduce and fill the earth. It's not possible to fulfill that commandment if you practice homosexuality.

Elf you have your religious beliefs which have nothing to do with facts and science.
If you believe in ghosts that is your right. I dont.